The Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional Episode 10 Green Apples

This week we spend some time talking with Janes Fowles who works in the Dairy Sector in Mid Canterbury. 

As a result of her research as part of the Kellogg's Leadership Programme Jane has developed a greater understanding of what it means to be culturally intelligent. It was great to hear Jane talk about what she learnt about cultural intelligence during her studies. Her willingness to listen to some of the stories and perspectives from the Filipino workers involved in the company she works for has led to the creation of a trusting relationship where migrant perspectives were able to be shared. 

Many of the comments she made really showed a depth of understanding not only of particular cultural values held by various cultures, but also, in this case, how those values show up in the Filipino culture and how someone not from that culture might learn to just be curious about those values and what response might be appropriate.

Jane covered off on cultural values such as collectivism and power distance and described really well how those values actually show up for people in a workplace setting, how many workers in your organisations are there who might not be able to refuse dangerous work because of their preference for high power distance.

So its time to sit back and take in another dose of the Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-fowles-b954491b/
https://ruralleaders.co.nz/know-better-do-better/

Transcript

Greg: 0:00

Welcome to another episode of the Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional, a podcast aimed it providing a platform, whereby safety professionals can develop a pathway to enhance their cultural intelligence capability, which will in turn, help them function more effectively when working in a multicultural situation. I'm Greg Dearsly your host and I have a range of guests lined up to talk to this year. We have people with experiences across leadership, psychology, health and safety, education, and of course cultural intelligence. All of our guests come from a wide range of different backgrounds across the diversity spectrum including from different organizational context. In this podcast you'll hear stories aimed at helping you, the listener enhance your cultural intelligence. You'll gain an understanding of how you can create trust when working in a diverse environment and quite frankly, that's all the time, no matter how homogenous the place you work at might be it's still full of diversity, people with different backgrounds, experiences, and beliefs all built on their figured world. So today I'm talking with Jane Fowles. Jane is based in Ashburton, just south of Christchurch, and works in the dairy industry. In 2022, Jane was accepted into the Kellogg's Rural Leadership Program and her area of study for that program, was looking at Filipino worker engagement in health and safety, in that dairy industry, in the mid Canterbury area. Jane's a pretty passionate advocate of the health and safety profession. And is also accomplished in the HR space kia ora Jane, great to have you on the podcast.

Jane: 1:53

Kia Ora, thanks Greg, great to be here.

Greg: 1:56

So let's get straight into it. I know you've got lots to talk about today. And we have known each other for a little while now. And so I know some of your history, but for the audience, do you want to give us a bit of an introduction into Jane and your story?

Jane: 2:11

Yeah, sure. I just feel like my story is not as exciting as other people's stories, but it's still a story none the less.. Yep, currently call Pakatiri or Ashburton home. We've been here for 10 years now. We came from Blenheim before then but I grew up in Wellington. We actually came here, I came here from England when I was quite young. Ended up in Ashburton I moved for love, apparently. So my husband's made me move location twice in my life. Both times for him to get a job and I followed. There you go. You'll take from that if you will. Excellent. Yeah, so before I came to Ashburton hadn't really sat in the rural sector very much, but came here obviously pretty big sector. I actually set up a business about nine months after we moved here doing HR and health and safety consultancy. Did that for five years, grew that up to be a pretty we had a great bunch of people and a great bunch of clients spanning the whole agri sector. And a bit of construction and manufacturing as well. Then COVID hit, my kids had grown up a bit and I decided to go and get a real job. So I moved to Dairy Holdings three and a half years ago now as health and safety manager and now people and culture. So like after all things, health, safety, people, wellbeing So really great role, really great space. I've actually become quite a fierce advocate for Safety in the agri space. And so involved with Safer Farms as well. Currently looking at quad bike safety New Zealand through that organization as well.

Greg: 3:40

That's a big area with lots of players with a whole bunch of different views.

Jane: 3:45

Yep, it is and getting my geek hat on, we're doing some really great work in the research space and the data space and capturing some information. I think everyone knows that data are New Zealand from a health and safety perspective. Could be better. And that kind of same thing lends itself to the quad bike piece as well. Yeah, Joanne Crawford actually at Vic Uni has been really helpful with us in that space. And we've got some great people as part of this group working on that project. So watch the space, Greg.

Greg: 4:13

So let's talk about the Kellogg's program that you were involved with a couple of years ago. Firstly, what's it all about? How did you get involved? I'm guessing that it's not about breakfast cereal?

Jane: 4:26

No, and they actually opened that on the first day. They're like let's just get this Kellogg thing out of the room. We're not anything to do with the breakfast cereal. The Kellogg Rural Leadership Program is run by rural leaders. It's a six month program. I guess for people who are developing themselves to be a leader in the sector, in the food and fiber sector it's a bit of a unique program. So there's some kind of residency that you go to do some leadership work, and then you get quite immersed in some of the industry players. So we went to Wellington, for example, or everyone goes to Wellington, for example, for a week you get to have that connection with government, which is actually really useful when you don't live in Wellington. It's quite a different environment. And as part of that six month program, you do a research project, which is pretty hefty. It's run very similar to I guess a master's thesis downgraded but still that same research process, so lit review, data collection qualitative or quantitative, review, conclusions, recommendations, the whole kit and caboodle so it's a really great program and yeah, I really enjoyed it, actually. And you get to choose your own research project. So I was obviously quite keen to pick something in that health and safety space. And yeah, it was a really great experience.

Greg: 5:46

And so your thesis was focused on I don't know if that's the right word, if it's officially a thesis, Research project, was focused on worker engagement within the Filipino community around health and safety in that mid Canterbury area. So I guess that's not unlike a master's program. You've drilled right down deep into a subject rather than being too broad. You've tried to get right into quite a specific area of research. And so the Filipino community is quite large in the mid Canterbury slash DHL area, if I'm correct, is that right?

Jane: 6:27

Yep, yep. So second largest proportion of our workforce is Filipino, which is probably pretty representative of, our area and possibly the dairy sector in general, just as in terms of what we've seen over the last sort of five to eight years, in terms of those migrant workers coming through. And you're right, Greg. The research was very much focused around quite a specific question. So my question was how can we better engage our Filipino dairy farm workers in mid Canterbury with Health and Safety on Farm? And part of that research was actually speaking to and surveying and focus groups with some of those workers in our area.

Greg: 7:09

And what sort of roles have those workers got within your farm environment?

Jane: 7:13

Oh, they were everything from farm assistant through to 2 IC, I think we had back then. And I also spoke to some people that employed them as well, so farm managers, contract milkers, share milkers as well.

Greg: 7:25

And so tell us about the research. What did you do you get out of it? What were some of the key findings? Did you learn a lot about Filipino culture and how you can better engage with that group of people?

Jane: 7:39

Yeah, so when I started the project, I think like all good research projects, you have a hypothesis of where you think you're going to land. And I probably went in a pathway I didn't think I was going to end up in because I ended up in this rabbit hole. Of cultural intelligence and I probably knew I'd go down a rabbit hole about something like that, but man, I was actually just really blown away by this whole concept of cultural intelligence and what it meant and the level of detail it went to. So that was probably the first learning I had was around actually what does it look like to be culturally intelligent and what outcomes and what benefits do you get from that? Because I think it's really easy to do some basic stuff and think, Oh yeah, I'm nailing this. But actually CQ pushes you a lot further along in terms of that cultural awareness piece. And I know I'm talking to you, Greg, as someone who has been down this rabbit hole far longer than I have and done lots more work in it, so I've only really touched the surface, but I think one of the big findings for me was this understanding that people are generally really unaware of the really large impact your own culture has on the way you interpret the world, and there's a lot of unconscious bias in there. And I think that was probably, sounds really simple to say out loud, but when I was listening to the stories of the group participants. You really do put your own lens on it. And it was a little bit, um, really simple example was so in our focus group, which was great fun, actually, we had lots of great chat and one of the staff said they got off the plane. They came here and they just put a helmet on to ride a bike. And I was like, yeah. And they're like, why? I was like don't you wear a helmet back in the Philippines to ride a motorbike? Like, why is this so different? Oh, we hang it on the handlebars if we see the police officer we put it on, don't we? I was like, okay, good. So they understood we need to wear it. I said, so why was it so weird when you came here? And he said what's going to fall on my head? Simple example, but I was only thinking about that from wear the helmet, because you're on a bike, different risks to different different interpretations. So I think that's probably one of my main learnings and the fact that for me, CQ is really important to know about the people you're leading because you only get success if you're really mindful. of your own assumptions and their assumptions when you're interacting and how you understand how that changes perception. So I always have an analogy I talk to people about here around the Granny Smith Apple. Do you like Granny Smith Apples, Greg?

Greg: 10:40

Look, I have a tree of Granny Smith apples here I've got to say I probably wouldn't pick one and eat it as it is, but quite happy to put it in a pot and a bit of sugar and all good.

Jane: 10:52

So I would eat it off the tree, right? There's nothing I can say to you. That's going to make me convince you that Granny Smith apple was delicious off the tree, nothing, and vice versa, right? So the reality is we have a Granny Smith apple, our perception of that is different. And we're not right or wrong, we're just different because of the way that we've ended up in this point in life. I'm using this as a really simple example, whereas if we take the granny smith apple we put it in the pot and we put the sugar with it and we put the flour with it you and I will both sit down very happily and eat that with some vanilla ice cream. Okay. Yeah. So if we've taken the reality, we've applied our lenses, we've shook it up, we've shaken it up, and we've changed it a bit. Now we've got a position that's completely different. And for me, I guess that's CQ for me around that cultural piece. It doesn't matter what you are talking about, whether it's, migrant workers cultural piece being from a different country, or whether it's company, or whether it's individual, or whether it's, it doesn't matter, the same kind of principle applies. They're probably the biggest learning for me around the CQ piece was that. It was funny actually, I came across something in a piece of research, it said that the, the saying used to be when in Rome, do as the Romans do. How about when in Rome, get to know the Romans, might be a way of applying, applying that logic. I guess that was the first big learning for me around what CQ is and how it's applied and where we can get to. And I think from a health and safety perspective, Only when someone feels truly safe, mentally, physically, emotionally, and culturally safe, do they feel they can speak freely in terms of reporting and assessing risk and saying, I don't feel comfortable to do that job, it feels unsafe. So until you have that, and I think for the migrant workers in the Philippines, in the Filipinos I spoke to, that was a really big piece. Do I feel culturally safe? To speak up. At least that was what I was trying to get to. In terms of the Filipino culture heck I learned a lot, absolutely. And I used Hofstede in his cultural framework a bit to help me compare the two cultures around his six headings, which was quite useful. Interestingly most of them, apart from power distance, which is about hierarchy And the other one, which was indulgence. We were pretty similar, oh, sorry, and individualistic to collectivistic. The rest of them were pretty similar, apart from Filipinos being more collectivistic, more hierarchical and less likely to less likely to indulge, the rest of them pretty similar across New Zealand and the Philippines. But indulgence was quite funny. New Zealand has a motto where we work hard and we play hard, right? We earn our money and we play hard, and the Philippines just doesn't actually seem to be their tendency. So one story I heard was, And this is the challenge I think we've got going forward. So we had a story where one of our family, one of their kids came home from school holidays, and they said to mom and dad, where are we going on holiday these holidays? And mum's we're not going on holiday, what are you talking about? Oh so and so's going to Queenstown, and so and so's going to Australia, and so and so's going to Auckland, where are we going? And it was just this this contrast between this kid saw all of his Kiwi friends going off and having these adventures and why are we not doing that? So yeah, that indulgent piece was quite funny. I think the main thing that came out of the Filipino research for me was we're no different, we're facing the same challenges in this space as they do around the world. So Canada, the UK, have very similar challenges. When the workers turn up in New Zealand, they generally turn up with very little understanding of health and safety and what that means. And we have a really different perception of risk. So how New Zealanders view risk and how migrants view risk is real different. And in some cases it's quite a risk blindness. Or they see risk as inherently acceptable to get the job done. And interestingly, so I've done all my research, it was my last focus group, and they were, I asked them a question, and they were speaking in Tagalog to answer my question and translate it, and one of them said, oh, it's like bahalana. I was like, I don't know about that. And they came back and I said, what? What did he say? What's Bahalana? And they were like, yeah, Bahalana. I said, what is Bahalana? And they said, no, Bahalana, Batman. I was like, what are you talking about? So the Bahalana means what will be. It is what it is. Baharana Batman is, Oh, we'll just leave it up to Batman. I just thought that was a really key way of summing it up. So, doing some research in it it's around that whole, quite a, they're quite a Catholic based Country. So it's God's will. So that marries up with that. So now when I go to a farm, actually in our business and there's a new worker from the Philippines or a new Filipino actually that's joined our team, I said, I've got one rule for you here at Dairy Holdings. No Bahalana Batman. And they just laugh and I'm like, no, that's not how we do health and safety here. No Bahalana Batman. And it just really sums up that, I think that risk perception thing really well. How we perceive risk and how they perceive risk is quite different. And that doesn't necessarily, it doesn't necessarily lend itself to CQ as much. You can have that same conversation no matter no matter where. So I guess that was probably one learning. The other learning, is around is around rights of work. So, our immigration settings. And that way our visas are, is we lock an employee to an employer, and that does erode cultural safety, whichever way you want to skin the cat. And the same problem overseas as well, so very similar, but when you're locking in a person to have to work for an employer, you are eroding the ability for them to feel safe enough to speak, because a lot of the people I spoke to in this project had left their families at home to come and work here to earn money to send home to support their families. When I did this research, it was post COVID. Some of them hadn't seen their kids for four to five years, left home when they were three or four and now they were eight or nine. I can't comprehend that. My kids are away for a week at the moment and it's only day three and I'm hanging out to see my children. Imagine leaving them for five years to work overseas to earn money. It's not actually go home because all the money you're earning you're sending home. But if you're tied to an employer who has bad practices, very difficult to leave, very costly to leave, it's difficult to leave. And so that is something that kind of fell into the research around that erosion of cultural safety for those people.

Greg: 17:54

And I think there was some organisations that might have come across that sort of towards the end of the Canterbury rebuild where, a bunch of migrant employees had been allocated or had come with a particular employer, that work dried up. That company had some work elsewhere and I, they couldn't send them there because that was a breach of the visa conditions. I know some awesome stuff in there, Jane. I just want to, make a comment on a couple of them. Absolutely right when you talk about Understanding your own cultural makeup before you can really be culturally intelligent and understanding how you're going to respond in certain situations, understanding how you deal with conflict, how you collaborate, all of those sorts of things. And I think I've said this before when I did my leadership program. The analogy of leadership is firstly not about everybody else. Firstly, it's about yourself and understanding your own approach to leadership and your own emotional intelligence and how you manage stress and all of those sorts of things. And CQ, cultural intelligence, is exactly the same in that, before you can be culturally intelligent you need to understand your own story and your own makeup. And as you say, it it does introduce those, biases that you might have. Maybe just a little bit of an example as well. I was recently at the Te Ropu Marutau o Aotearoa. Health and Safety Conference and gentleman was talking, he was one of the speakers and talking about his upbringing as a Māori person from the East Coast who grew up speaking Te Reo, didn't know how to speak English until he was 15. Absolutely from a cultural perspective saw mountains and rivers as living beings. And basically said the Pākehā way of life was absolutely confusing to him. And I was thinking about that, about how, Māori and Pākehā live on the same land, we might as well be somebody here and somebody on the west coast of, I don't know, Africa or the middle of Europe or something. The level of difference that there is between the two cultures at a real deep level. Like your your green apples example, and the Baha lana word, you told me about that a few years ago and I've actually got it on my wall here just to remind me about differences. And I guess the question from that then becomes, in some ways you can't say no Bahalana because it's their culture. So I guess you have to find some way of saying. Okay, if that's the cultural view of whatever will be, what is it that is going to influence a different culture's approach to being safe at work under New Zealand laws and expectations? You have to find that thing that will influence those individuals so that they, will, follow the way that you want them to operate in your organization.

Jane: 21:11

Yeah, you're 100 percent right. I guess the challenge around, Bahalana is a great way to open the conversation around risk assessment and perception and why it's different in New Zealand, but just like the Granny Smith apple, I can't create someone who disregards that completely in terms of, because it's just how they see the world, right? And I guess, and I can't if you, if everyone was waiting for some great answer as to how to fix this problem, they've probably come to the wrong podcast, but if you don't leave this podcast with more questions and answers, I'm not sure I've done my job right, Greg. But I think it just goes back to your point around, really challenging how you're delivering messaging and engaging with people. So our policies in health and safety tend to be quite individualistic by the nature of a policy. you will do it this way or you will not do it this way. Like it's quite an individual thing. And look, I'm 100 percent guilty of this too, so I'm not saying that I am any better than the average bear. But when you're thinking about, when you're thinking about Filipino being collectivistic, how can you bring some of that collectivisticness into your individualistic procedures? How can you be more collaborative? But it is a challenge. Like I, whenever I have this conversation, I often get reminded that sometimes our Filipino workers are very agreeable. So one of the stories I got told when I did this research was from a, he's a contract milker now, but he came here as a young Filipino farm assistant. And he said he remembers his first week or so on a farm, he was working for this guy and they had to take a tractor up onto the hill. And the farmer asked all the Kiwis to do it and they all said, I'm not doing that. No, I don't feel comfortable. It got to him. And of course in his world, there was no, you couldn't say no because he was fresh off the plane. His view of the world was hierarchy. My boss asked me to do a question. I do the job. So when he got asked, he said, yeah, I'll do that. Even all of the key people in the team said no. He still said yes. And I said, why did you do that? He said, because Jane, that was just, it's the way, it's the way it was. And now he's been here and he's moved his way out through farm management, now he's contract milker. He said, I don't, I would never say yes to that now, but he said I was off the plane. And so that's just what happened. And so the problem I have with that story, Greg, is if all of the Kiwi workers said no, the farmer probably should have stopped asking someone to go up there and do it, because obviously it wasn't a place anyone felt safe. He just took the guy that said yes. So it's how you communicate with one worker won't be the same way you should be communicating with the rest of your team, regardless of whether they're Filipino or South American, everyone's going to have a different way that they prefer to communicate. And I think if you're a good employer, it's about how you can focus on that collective piece, because we know, regardless of this research, we know that if people work together to be safe, we have better outcomes. In fact, you and I know if you work well together, plan your work, have all the tools to do your work, and the right people with the right skill level, you have the byproduct of safety. So I think it's, in a nutshell for me, the cultural intelligence piece flows into that as well.

Greg: 24:50

Just thinking about your, comments around developing policy and all of those sorts of things, and whether it's a policy, whether it's a procedure, whether it's a risk assessment or a hazard ID, whatever it might be if you think about the collectivism culture, isn't that the perfect analogy for worker engagement? Because you might have a group of Filipino workers. Pacific Islander workers, whatever and it's all about getting together as a group and agreeing the outcome or the process or the system at the moment, from an individualistic perspective, as you say, here it is, this is what I have done, and this is what you were going to do whereas the collective approach would be okay, thanks for that, we're going to take it over here, And have a chat about it in this environment over here. And I think, maybe a little off topic, but I think we just get so stuck on what worker engagement looks like. We think it's just health and safety reps in a toolbox meeting. And because that's what the law talks about or health and safety committee. We don't get a lot of these discussions about what worker engagement might look like if you're thinking about it more holistically. And I think, cultural intelligence is potentially a gateway to enhanced worker engagement that is a little bit more real than a committee that nobody talks at and only goes to because there's a pizza on the table, and some people that have been through a training course and have got a title to tick a theoretical box that doesn't really exist. And I just think if we understood the different values of all of these different cultures that are working in our organizations, and allow them the opportunity to express those values or be those people then the worker engagement piece would be much, much better.

Jane: 26:40

Yeah, I think you're 100 percent right. I think also, it's about clear communicated goals as well, like the research showed that, like I said before, apart from a few areas. New Zealand and Filipino were similar and it was around having the collaboration, clear communication good values. So actually one of the stories was, so Greg, if I work for you and we're on a building site and we have a disagreement during the day. So say I'm your foreman or whatever and you turn up and you disagree with how I've set something up and we might have a little bit of a heated discussion about that. We'll do that. And then about an hour later, you'll say to me, Oh, are you coming to the pub tonight? And I'll be like yeah, I'll see you there. And we'll go and we'll have a drink. And it happens, but we're having a drink. Not so much for the Filipino culture, like really hard to earn trust, really easy to lose it. And that was one of the examples that got shown. They couldn't understand that they wanted to go to the pub together. When they'd had a heated discussion during the day, like that just seemed really foreign to them. So value based was pretty important, but that's the same. Doesn't, again, a lot of these things, it doesn't actually relate necessarily to migrant workers. It's just being a good boss. But there was one other thing that did come up about ensuring the security of the worker around for the Filipino workers around saving face. In Filipino culture, it was they didn't want to be embarrassed and so an employer who stood in a toolbox meeting and picked them out, maybe wouldn't be a good boss for them. And so then it was someone who could do that in a way that saved them face, which I thought was quite important as well. But really that collaboration, that collectivistic, was still the underlying theme.

Greg: 28:29

And I think the important thing to understand too, if you're thinking about these cultural values, is also, probably on the other end of the scale, don't get caught. In the stereotype. Because, just because we sit here and say, Filipino is this, that, and the other Filipino culture is, looks like this. Yes it may be but actually that doesn't necessarily mean that all people from that culture are on the same page, it's a starting point. To help you understand where things might go, but it doesn't mean 100 percent of the people that are of that culture are actually apply those cultural values.

Jane: 29:12

100 percent and the longer they've been in New Zealand, the less likely that was to be true. So like I said the Filipina, the worker I spoke to who came here as a pharmacist and a worker, compared to where he is today, miles apart in terms of in terms of that. And I think that's a really good point for CQ, right? you never get it. You do some work and you learn some stuff and you try and apply it. And I actually did a presentation on this, for NZISM a couple of hours after the research, so probably about 18 months ago, and I said to them the great thing about CQ is I can guarantee you That you will insult somebody because you're trying to know better and you're trying to apply what you've learned and you're going to walk yourself into a trap not of any other intention because you haven't, because of the way you've interpreted with your worldview, because you've fallen to exactly the comment you just made, Greg, around I've done this research, so it must be true. And you apply it wrongly or you're going to you're going to upset someone and. I guess it's just the nature of learning, it's how you reflect on that but I think when you put yourself in this world where you're trying to be more you're trying to learn and you're trying to do better you are probably going to end up in a position where you've said it the wrong way or said the wrong thing.

Greg: 30:35

I think we we talked quite in depth about that in episode two with Chris Peace and he shared a couple of stories of things that he'd got wrong. In, in certain scenarios. And look, absolutely, you're going to make a mistake. You're absolutely right in terms of talking about reflection. That's another piece of the CQ puzzle. We know reflective practice is what the safety industry talks about. That's when we learn, when we go away and think about how did that go? How can I do it better? What did I learn? What's going to be different next time? So yeah, absolutely. With all of that. Can you believe we're almost at time or we probably are at time, but I would like to wrap up our session with, and I know you said before, if you're not answering everybody's questions, then you haven't done your job, but I'm still going to put you on the spot and ask you for a couple of tips that health and safety professionals around New Zealand or maybe even around the world might take on board if they've got Filipino workers in their teams. We know as you said before, in your environment, Filipino workers are are quite a high percentage. We know that people from that part of the world operate in the agricultural space, in the healthcare space, A couple of tips that we can learn from in terms of how to make that group feel more inclusive in our workplaces.

Jane: 31:57

I knew you'd put me on the spot, Greg. And I thought about this and I was like, it's going to put me on the spot and I still haven't come up with something like Miraculous. But I guess I'll say just take the time to go and talk to them and learn about what's important for them. Learn about, like religious holidays might be really important to some members of your team. We make them celebrate Christmas and some cultures don't celebrate Christmas, but we in New Zealand are like it's Christmas time. So you shall, but actually there's another holiday that might be more important. Go and learn that. Go and understand that and then see, you should be flexible enough in your organization and resilient enough to to make some changes that help people under, to fit that stuff in. So I guess that'd be my first tip is just go and talk to them. And I guess probably for health and safety specifically I think it would be about helping them understand why speaking up and reporting is important. And if they do that, help them understand what the outcome will be. Help them understand that there's no bad reaction if they tell you that the scaffolding is wobbly there's no bad reaction for that. If they feel like their two wheeler is not working properly, there's no reaction for that, except for those things being fixed. So yeah, those might, that would be my two top tips is talk to them and understand them and learn about them and learn about their culture. I tell you, they make a great feast. I've had some fantastic food. From some of our Filipino family, which is they always feed me actually. Some of them always feed me when I go, which is great because I need feeding. But food's obviously a really big part of that. Learn that and enjoy it and embrace it. And then from a health and safety perspective, help them understand why reporting and speaking up is important and what the outcomes from that would be.

Greg: 33:59

I think the other one that I'd add, and I've experienced this and I think I've even talked about it on this podcast at times, is maybe just learn the word for hello in your language. And we all run around and we, kia ora, but we're not always, talking to just māori people, there's all these other cultures and you probably only need to learn two or three or obviously the ones that are relevant for your workplace. And I've just I've just seen that so many times over the last few years where you learn the word and this big grin just appears and it just, it seems to me like it makes people's days when you recognize and acknowledge their language.

Jane: 34:41

Yeah, I know I say Kumusta to people when I do that, and it's just, yeah, they do, they get a big smile because they're like, oh. It's cool. That's why, I think that's why for me, when I'm speaking to our new members and say Bahalana, equally that same big grin, because they're like, how does she know that? How does a Pākehā woman from New Zealand know know our term? They just think it's hilarious. I guess that's just part of that same, for me, that's that same comment, get to know them. Doesn't matter if it's Filipino or South American, but, the same thing can be applied. And it's a pretty easy thing to do. And then if it's not right, they'll quickly tell you.

Greg: 35:15

Yeah. Hey, Jane. Awesome, as always, to catch up and have a chat. Really enjoyed the discussion and Yeah some great gems and I know that the whole cultural intelligence concept is gaining a little bit of momentum, and I think you've been part of that and still a long way to go, but great to have a chat about that, and thanks for putting some time aside to participate.

Jane: 35:40

Thank you for having me Greg. It's been great. I always love having a good chat with you and yeah, it was great. Thanks very much.

Greg: 35:47

It was great to hear Jane talk about what she had learned about cultural intelligence during her studies. her willingness to listen to some of the stories and perspectives from the Filipino workers has lead to the creation of a trusting relationship where their perspectives were able to be shared. Many of the comments she made really showed a depth of understanding, not only have particular cultural values held by the different cultures but also in this case, how those values showed up in Filipino culture and how someone not from that culture might learn how to be curious about those values and what response might be appropriate. Jane covered off on cultural values, such as collectivism and power distance and described really well how those values actually show up for people in a workplace setting. How many workers in your organization are there, who might not be able to refuse dangerous work because of their preference for high power distance. As for Jane's advice for health and safety professionals. She talked about just getting to know workers who are different from you or different from the majority. Understand their perspectives and needs and then work towards ways that some of those needs can be integrated in your approach to managing health and safety. Janes other piece of advice was to really work hard to provide practical reasons as to why reporting is a positive step to take and what the worker might experience as a result. Sometimes companies might not actually have a blame culture but there can be a perception of one so prove that perception wrong and appreciate every situation that has reported. It's a learning opportunity. We've come to the end of this episode thanks so much for listening. I hope you found something valuable that you can take away that might enhance aspects of your own cultural intelligence. I'll add the transcript from this episode to the show notes and there'll be some other resources available as well. If you'd like to talk about cultural intelligence get in touch with me via LinkedIn. I'm posting content regularly so keep an eye on your feed and comment if you see something that resonates, if we aren't connected send me an invite. If you want to hear more about CQ you can follow and subscribe to this podcast I'd really appreciate it if you did that. And keep an eye out for the next episode. I'm going to be taking a bit of a break from releasing episodes for a couple of weeks. I have some really outstanding guests joining me in the few weeks in the future. The next episode will be released on the 28th of May where I'm joined by Mike Styles. Mike has worked in the field of dyslexia for more than 20 years. He's had a career as a secondary school teacher and delivered adult community education in his area of specialism, which is horticulture. Mike now works to improve outcomes for people with dyslexia. This promises to be a fascinating discussion. Thanks again for tuning into the Cultural Intelligent Safety Professional, Ka Kitei