The Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional Episode 15 Haumaru Tangata

Jodhi Warwick Ponga, a trustee of Te Ropu Marutau o Aotearoa, discussed her career and involvement in health and safety, alongside her role at Vertical Horizons. She began with a diverse background in engraving, signwriting, and screen printing before transitioning to health and safety through roles in a software company managing 20,000 workers across New Zealand and Australia. Her journey led to consultancy and eventually to her current role heading programs and apprenticeships at Vertical Horizons.

She elaborated on Te Ropu Marutau o Aotearoa (TRMA), the Māori Health and Safety Association, which started informally in 2017 and has grown into a charitable organization with around 60-70 members. TRMA focuses on providing advice, training, mentoring, and hosting conferences to support Māori health and safety practitioners.

Jodhi highlighted Haumaru Tāngata, a framework developed through research by Te Whare Wānanga o Awanuiārangi and funded by ACC. This framework aims to address higher workplace harm statistics among New Zealand Māori in high-risk industries like forestry and construction. It offers a culturally responsive approach to health and safety, enhancing workplace practices without replacing existing systems.

Haumaru Tāngata is structured around four components: principles (Ngā rau), cultural practices (Ngā āra tikanga), interventions (Ngā kōkiri), and outcomes (Ngā hua). It integrates Māori values and practices into workplace health and safety, promoting a holistic approach that considers wellbeing alongside safety.

Regarding implementation, Jodhi emphasized the importance of engaging Māori workers as cultural advisors within their workplaces rather than seeking external consultants. TRMA supports organizations through a self-assessment tool and provides guidance based on 20 questions aligned with Haumaru Tāngata's principles.

Overall, Jodhi's work underscores the significance of culturally informed approaches in improving health and safety outcomes for Māori workers, advocating for inclusive practices that respect and integrate Māori values into everyday workplace operations.

https://www.trma.co.nz/haumaru-tngata-overview

Transcript

Greg: 0:01

Hi, everyone welcome to another episode of the Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional, a podcast aimed at providing a platform where by safety professionals can develop a pathway to enhance their cultural intelligence capability which will help them function more effectively when working in a multicultural situation. I'm Greg Dearsly your host and I have a range of guests lined up to talk to this year. We have people with experiences across leadership psychology, health and safety, education and of course cultural intelligence. All of our guests come from a wide range of different backgrounds across the diversity spectrum, including from different organizational context. In this podcast you'll hear stories aimed at helping you the listener enhance your cultural intelligence. You'll gain an understanding of how you can create trust when working in diverse environments and quite frankly, that's all the time no matter how homogenous the place you work at might be, it's still full of diversity, people with different backgrounds, experiences and beliefs, all built on their figured world. Today I'm

1:13

talking to Jodhi Warwick Ponga, Jodhi is a trustee

Greg: 1:17

of Te Ropu Marutau o Aotearoa and she's just coming down from the heights of running another successful health and safety conference held once again here in Kirikiriroa, Hamilton. Jodhi is head of programs and apprenticeships at Vertical Horizons and her career has spanned various aspects of training and education.

1:38

Kia ora, Jodhi great to

Greg: 1:40

be here with you, and I'm really grateful that you've taken the time to have a chat with me.

Jodhi: 1:45

Ngā mihi, kia ora Greg.

Greg: 1:47

Before we get into discussions about Te Ropu and the conference and Haumaru Tangata, I'm really keen to hear more about your work and your career and, how you ended up here at Vertical Horizons.

Jodhi: 2:02

Awesome. Alright. Gosh, where do I start? I have a very eclectic CV I guess you could call it. My trade background is that I'm an engraver and a signwriter and a screen printer so I did that straight out of uni. I didn't last very long in uni, didn't really enjoy it too much the first time round. So my dad actually said to me when I dropped outta uni, I was doing law and he said to me, you're not going to stay with us unless you go and either get a degree or you do a trade. So I had to go and find a trade and my trade is my background. So it's really helped me in my health and safety professional roles as well. So after that, I did it. I dabbled a bit in banking nothing flash. Spent some time in Australia I served a mission for my church as well during that time. And then I fell into health and safety. So I fell into it through a software company called Obsidium at the time. So we managed 20, 000 workers throughout New Zealand and Australia and I was the client. I worked my way up. Within a year to be the client services manager. So I managed my team and I managed to the councils in Australia and in New Zealand and about 60 clients in New Zealand. So yeah, about. 20, 000 workers all in all. And then I moved into consultancy after that finished off some of my studies in health and safety and have worked with Vertical Horizons for about 10 years off and on. So both as a contractor, and then I moved into the Māori Pacifica team where I worked Managed that and then took a bit of time off and worked at Waihanga Ara rau which is a Workforce Development Council for a year last year And then came back to Vertical Horizons as the head of programs and apprenticeships. So It's been a very busy 10 years, I must say. Yep,

Greg: 3:49

So you're a trustee of we call it TRMA. Yes, Te Ropu Marutau o Aotearoa. That's the one, the Māori Health and Safety Association. And, just getting that off the ground a few years ago must have been a real outstanding effort and something that I guess you're all really proud of achieving. And I remember attending a hui back, I think it was about 2018 in Whakatane with, I think that was before it was launched, and it was, getting some stakeholders together and just having a kōrero about about, what it could achieve, and now in 2024, you're celebrating, or as I said before, you've come down from the highs of running a second successful conference. So tell us a little bit about TRMA

Jodhi: 4:33

So TRMA Yeah, like you said, it started around 2017 it was just a, actually a collection of a few Māori health and safety practitioners and professionals who got together, and they were essentially just starting or catching up and having a cup of tea every month or so, and then They invited Vance along to be part of it and Vance said, Hey, he was working for WorkSafe at the time and he said, Hey, WorkSafe will fund the kai if you want to hold a meeting. So he managed to get some funds together and they, we held our first like formal kind of meeting around 2018. And then we continued from there. So it was just a handful of health and safety practitioners who wanted to get together to support each other who were Maori. And then it expanded from there. So we're a charitable organisation, we have a small board of seven trustees. And like any Māori organization, it's done on the smell of an oily rag and lots of aroha and love. But yeah, we've grown into having a membership now. Our membership, I think, is totaling around 60 to 70 formally paid we tend to have quite a good following. We don't profess to be anything amazing or big, but we're definitely working to grow our membership. But more than anything, we want to provide a service, and this service is about providing advice, training, mentoring, and then also to add conferences and events to that, just to support those who may not be members. Yeah. We're very focused on making sure that the resources that we provide are funded by other agencies, and where possible our services are free.

Greg: 6:10

Cool, cool and proud to say that I'm one of those paid up members. And am I right in saying membership hasn't yet been open for a year?

Jodhi: 6:22

Yeah, that's correct yeah. It might be close to a year, but Barely. We officially opened it, I think it was Late last year. It took us a while to figure out the logistics of it. Yeah, so barely a year.

Greg: 6:37

And as you say you've got a good following. It was unfortunate I couldn't attend the first conference, but I know that sold out.

Jodhi: 6:44

Yeah, it sold out. We had we thought we'd get 200 if we're really, like things went well. We ended up having 400 and almost 450 people in attendance. This year was down on last year's, but it was still really successful. We already have people asking about it next year.

Greg: 7:02

I think you committed, didn't you? I think. Somebody committed at the conference and said, yeah, see you next year. Yeah, after that we went, we looked at each other and just went, oh no. Look, I think I wouldn't be disappointed about being down. I think every conference is really struggling for the people's dollar and I guess it's a significant decision to make as to which conference to go to, but I think, your message is starting to gain momentum. Lots of people interested and as you say, you've started to get quite a following, certainly from what you see online and hear around the place. And let's just talk about, your, is it your sort of big project, which is this Haumaru Tāngata framework. Yes. It's pretty new to the market, it's not been around for long, really.

Jodhi: 8:02

Yeah, about a year as well. Officially it was launched at our last conference. So that was April 19th, 2023. Yep. So that was its official launch. I think we went to print with a thousand and we're up to a third print. Yeah. So we've gave away a considerable amount, but it's now available on our TRMA website as well, anyone can download it.

Greg: 8:26

So let's just let's just talk through the Haumaru Tāngata framework and just tell me a little bit about it.

Jodhi: 8:32

Sure. So the, this came about because of three years worth of research. The project was actually led by Te whare wananga o awanuiarangi and it was funded by ACC. So the intent was to understand why New Zealand Māori had higher statistics in terms of for workplace harm. Yep. And The intent after that was actually to discover it, understand it, research it, and then to produce a document. So out of it, the research, we found that this was what was needed. So Haumaru Tāngata is a framework which provides a guide for intervention and investment for health and safety for Māori employed in high risk industries. So the intent is high risk industries. Places that were researched were mostly around our forestry and also construction. And we also know that fishing they have some high rates of injury for Māori. And we know that Māori are overrepresented in all of the negative statistics in regards to harm in the workplace. So the framework is set about to support any organization who would like to take a more Māori centered approach towards their health and safety. So it doesn't replace your health and safety system. It's an add on to, and it's a way in which you can deliver a message and also engage better with Māori. So the expectation is that this is a Māori centred model that provides meaningful examples, I guess you could say, or more Meaningful understanding of how you can implement a culturally responsive workplace practice.

Greg: 10:09

OK, so we're talking about this before, and I guess what we'll do is we'll go through, the key components of it, but I guess firstly, can you explain what, if any, difference or similarities there are between this and Te Whare Tapa Whā. Obviously, Te Whare Tapa Whā is something, in my opinion, that most health and safety professionals would be familiar with, we know it's used as part of the Safe Plus training and it's always referenced by people in terms of when they start talking about wellbeing and health, so what's the difference or the similarities between the two?

Jodhi: 10:49

That's a really interesting Question. Te Whare Tapa Whā is a model of wellbeing. So it's been around for about 40 years. So it's based on Sir Mason Drury and his model that he developed. So Te Whare Tapa Whā is another framework, another model. So Haumaru Tāngata is an additional model that you can add to your kete or your bag. There are multiple wellbeing models out there, both for Māori, Pasifika and other indigenous cultures and non indigenous cultures, but this is just another model that we can use. As we were talking before we came online, I guess you could say, is that A professional, a practitioner, should know multiple models. And they should be able to use it and be agile enough, so that when one, one framework or model doesn't work, you can actually lean on another model. In my own practices, I use Te Whare Tapu Whā as a guiding model, but I also use Haumaru Tāngata to help me in how I engage with Māori. I also use Te Wheke, which is a further model. So Te Wheke or the octopus, when you think of an octopus, it has eight Tentacles and those eight tentacles can have a function for each, but there are some times when certain areas or functions are weaker and then all the tentacles or those available resources should move into that area. So I use Te Wheke in my own practices as a manager, where if I see my staff we have a regular catch up and there may be a staff member who's particularly overwhelmed with their workload, we will act like Te Wheke. The octopus and then move over to look after and support that person in their workload or in their well being. And then when they're at balance again, using the Te Whare Tapu Whā model, they're at balance, then we can move back and spread our resources again. So Haumaru Tāngata in this sense is about how we can employ some of the te ao Māori practices into our own health and safety workplace practices.

Greg: 13:00

Cool. So let's dig into Haumaru Tāngata, it's got four component parts to it. Ngā rau, which is its principles. Ngā āra tikanga and I guess, Many will understand the word tika from what we see in the construction industry with, the pre qualification program Tōtika, tika being the correct way of doing things, ngā kōkiri, which is activities and interventions, and ngā hua, outcomes and measures. So I'd really just, yeah, let's spend some time just going through each of those and talking about what they're all about. So you're founding principles.

Jodhi: 13:40

Yes. So when we think about our founding principles, or ngā rau we actually have them broken into seven separate principles. So our first one is rau tangata, which is the well being of the individual. So specifically when we think about rau tangata or well being, This section actually focuses on how are we presenting information to our whānau that work within our workplaces is the information accessible and is it good information, does it reflect the people who work in that workplace. So say for instance, we have in forestry, there's a high number of Māori. So when you look at how you present yourself, or perhaps some of the marketing materials that you use some of the SOPs that you may have within the business, your standard operating procedures, do they, are they reflective of the individuals who work in that organisation? Does it reflect your workers? Yep. So that's that's a little bit about Rau tangata. We also have some others. So there's Rau Whāraki, which is about holistic integration. It's Is the material that we're providing, has it been indigenized? Are there certain aspects of it which really build on the, the way in which Māori want to see things? They talk about pedagogy and pedagogy is the way in which you present information and share information. So Māori, we love storytelling. Sure. We love metaphors. So are you sharing the information in a storytelling or a metaphor way so that it's Easily understood. Yep. But there's there's a whole lot of different parts within this. We also have cultural values. Are they reflected within your your health and safety systems? So some of the things that we value within Māoridom is tangihanga. So is there an allowance and an understanding of the importance of Māori actually? Taking part in tangihanga or funerals and knowing that a tangi or a funeral is not just a couple of hours at a church service, it actually can be a longer service. And there's also a year later, there's a period where we go back and we also come back together again for the unveiling. Are we reflective of our cultural values and whānau?

Greg: 15:57

There was a couple of things in the Rau Tangata section that I'd when I was reading through this. And the interesting bit that I've highlighted here is the replacement of the word health with wellbeing which I think is intended to create more of a holistic approach to a person which, follows with I guess Tikanga, and also if we think about cultural intelligence one of the cultural values, I suppose within the cultural intelligence framework is individualistic or collectivism and Maori, not all Maori, I would assume, because we're not suggesting that the cultural intelligence framework is there to provide or create a stereotype, but Māori would be more collectivist culture, doing things for the group rather than from an individual perspective, and as I say, I'm not necessarily suggesting that applies to every single Māori person.

Jodhi: 16:56

Yeah, I think there's actually there's actually more to it than just being a collectivist. It's actually being intergenerational as well. So if you think about Māori and the way in which we live our lives many of us, In the past, and continue to live in this way, we live very intergenerationally. So our homes are filled with, it literally takes a village to raise a children for many Māori families. So we are involved in everyday life together. So that's grandparents, that's immediate family, that's uncles, aunties, cousins. But it's not just the living, it's also the past. Yes. And it's also the ones who are still to come as well. Yes. So when we think of intergenerational behaviours we are thinking of what am I doing to this person that could affect their future generations as well? So the concept of mana, whilst it's not clearly written in Haumaru Tāngata and underpinning of many of our cultural values is this concept of mana or manatangata. So Manatangata is. So if you think about mana, let's take mana first. So mana is a, an authority. It's a standing within your community. It's a it's a, I'm trying to, it's like an essence that you hold. But it's not something that you yourself created. You were born with this birthright or this mana by way of who your familial lines are. So if you're, if your parents and your grandparents and your great grandparents and all of those had mana, you were born, you will be born with a certain mana. And then how you grow your mana is by your acts and your contributions. within your community and your whānau and those external to you. So mana can grow, but also mana can be diminished. So by your choices that you make, your mana will diminish. When you're not tika, your mana will diminish. When you harm another, your mana will diminish. But you can also diminish someone else's mana. by doing something that belittles them or harms or embarrasses them. In our practices, we have to think about, am I doing something that is mana enhancing of the individual? Because if I diminish their mana, I have not only diminished their mana, I may have diminished the mana of their family, their children that are yet to come, and their familial lines that have already passed on. So it's a, it's quite a big deal to diminish someone's mana. So one of the biggest mana diminishing things that can occur is actually a workplace incident where there has been harm. So if someone is harmed and it means that they cannot work, they cannot then contribute to their community. So if they have harmed themselves and perhaps they were very big in playing sports or they're involved in community activities, they can no longer do that, their mana is becoming eroded. So when we're in a workplace and we are actively eroding one's mana through our poor workplace practices. That has a massive effect on, intergenerationally, on Māori and their whānau.

Greg: 20:24

And you can then, see how Haumara Tāngata could be used to promote, I don't know if that's the right word, but remind? I don't know if Māori workers need reminding of some of that tika that, that could be the outcome. Not, not in a blaming way but just saying this is what we're all about. And I guess if you were trying to implement this, would you be suggesting that you would need some sort of cultural advisor to help you along the way?

Jodhi: 20:55

To a certain extent, yes. At the moment we have we've got funding. So TRMA has funding to support 30 organizations. So we have created an assessment. It can be a self assessment, but what we're actually doing is we're working with organizations to answer 20 questions. They're based on Haumaru Tāngata, so they're simple questions they're yes no questions, but it's in order for us to gain to start them to to question, I'm going to ask them about do, what's one of the questions? I've got it in front of me. The first question is, do our communication efforts reflect Maori values and culture? And it's yes, no question. A lot of the times people will go, oh, I don't think so. We're trying to actually change the way in which our website works. We were trying to add a more culturally inclusive website. And then that goes from being a no to actually a yes. You're actually trying And then we have a, it's not a service per se, but that whoever will be working with you of those 30 organizations, one of the trustees will be able to give you some, rather than cultural advice, it's actually gonna be a cultural mentor. Because we find that it's easy to get the advice. But what's hard to do is actually implement the advice and to actually have that soft spot to talk to, that soft person to actually go, how about you try it this way instead? Or maybe you could maybe you could add a little bit more of some of the values into your website and kind of embed that into the way that you are, but it's to have someone to bounce ideas off. I think that's a lot of times because I've had a few calls from people and sometimes we just need a softly approach, which is what we want to provide is a softly approach, but also an honest approach. And sometimes, the truth can be hard. So when it's someone, it's a lot easier.

Greg: 22:44

Yeah, that's interesting. So go back to that question about, does your website or your, your policies or your procedures reflect culture, indigenous culture, Māori culture. I've just heard from so many people around and had conversations with people about the rights and wrongs of having company policies that, that should or shouldn't end with nā mihi. Or people using karakia and you go is that a tokenistic thing that you're doing because you think you should, or is it genuine? And I think there's a lot of people in organisations that really struggle and don't know. As I say, I had I had somebody contact me that said they had been using Ngā mihi just because they thought it was something nice to do, and they've been instructed by their organization to stop doing it. And also the other way around, where the organization might have said blanket rule. This is our signature. This is our email signature, and it's got Nanamihi in it and people are going, oh, is that the right thing to do? So I guess having that. I guess that, that knowledgeable voice of your cultural mentor might help decision making in, is what we're doing right. And the karakia one's interesting. I spoke to a group of Māori workers on the side of the road, in the middle of what nowhere, doing a Safe Plus assessment, and I asked them about karakia, and the were, why would we do that at work when we do it at home? It's already done. We don't need to do it when we go to work, yet it's been talked about in workplaces. Not a lot of workplaces, I don't think, but some workplaces are using it. And yeah, it's just about trying to understand what's the right thing to do and how you might go about that. And so would that be something if we moved on from the Principles to the next section, which is your focus areas. Talk to me about whether that, is that the practical implementation of the principles?

Jodhi: 24:41

Yes. So there are activities and interventions. The focus areas are broken down. So it's actually set up with the rau, so those who may be familiar with some of the old school audit standards you had like elements. And then there were sections within the elements, which were like the sub elements. So the rau are the elements and then the ngā ara are the actual sub elements. And then the next part, the ngā kōkiri, are the kind of the guidance and the breakdown of it. And then ngā hua are the breakdown. So it's a breakdown of what you would expect it to look like. So Haumaru Tāngata is very much laid out to, if you're familiar with auditing, you'll be like, Oh, I get it. I see it. So we have actually got, so we've developed An actual full audit using Haumaru Tāngata. We've just left it to the side because what we realized, we developed it last year and realized, hmm, this is probably better for auditors. And we moved on and we're like, no, let's move to this, the 20 questions, because that 20 questions will then help the individual organizations to better implement Haumaru Tāngata without saying like 60 questions which a normal auditor will go, oh that's all right. But though I have to say this the breakdown of it is specific to the rau. So the focus areas that you're talking about all link into the rau itself. We have developed, if I was to step back a bit and go back to talking about the self assessment has its intent so that it can break down and you'll understand which areas are probably not your strongest areas. And from that, we are creating resources to support you in each of those areas. So we actually have created karakia, we do have a waiata, Um, for workplaces who don't have a karakia and they're looking for something that's non denominational, open to anyone so that they can feel confident and comfortable to offer that. But just if I was to go back about tokenism and how we see it with Yeah. I would say, if I was to give any advice, I would say to you That you don't necessarily need a cultural advisor, but what you do need to do is actually engage with your workers. If you have Māori in your workplace, you already have cultural advisors. You already have cultural mentors. So why do you need to go outside and seek external advice when you have internal experts already?

Greg: 27:23

And I think that, if I was to bang my own drum about cultural intelligence, that's exactly what cultural intelligence is about. Actually, if you become more culturally intelligent, then that is going to enhance your work engagement. Processes and systems and approaches. And I like the bit that we just focus on the karakia component and you've talked about that a little bit and it talks about having a karakia specific to your workplace or your industry. And as you say, Maybe you can get all of the cultures together and you come up with a non-denominational approach.

Jodhi: 28:02

It can be for all iwi, it can be pan tribal or if you are working in an industry that is specific to it or here, or a region or an area or an iwi. You actually may have tribal members already in your workplace, so go to them. There is nothing more mana enhancing for an individual to be asked for their support. So when you go outside of your own workplace and seek a cultural advisor outside of that, it's actually mana diminishing for your workers. So it's a simple act of Someone who you've never thought of who could offer that. It's a simple act of asking them. I I spoke in one article that I wrote on LinkedIn. I spoke about how the someone on a lolly, holding a lollipop, traffic management that they've highly skillful role may highly esteemed in the world, but that may be the greatest orator that you ever have on the marae. So the mana is. massive when they're on the marae, but the moment they go into another world, it's not as valued. So this is about valuing the people that you already have.

Greg: 29:13

And so there's the nā ara components to that, and it's probably about six or seven of them, and then sitting below that or following on from it is the nā kōkiri, so the activities and the interventions. So this is, getting a little bit even more specific and practical. And I guess that is where it seems to be the place where you're going to really need that input from your people, because there's not a lot of writing here telling you the answers, right? So you need to get, got a bit of an overview about knowledge and training here. Highlight the need for existing training programs to be reviewed and Māori pedagogies, be incorporated into the design where possible. So what does that actually mean? In reality, maybe that needs some input from your workforce.

Jodhi: 29:59

Exactly. You do need, you really do need to engage. So part of the, part of all of this is that there's this, we've got the foundational principles and we've got focus areas and activities and interventions. The activities and the interventions are the, this is what we should be doing. This is the value that our people can actually have to support us to indigenize our workplace. So absolutely go back to your own workers. To find out what are their needs, what are their wants, and how they would like to see things improved in terms of cultural responsiveness.

Greg: 30:34

Yep, cool. And then the last section is outcomes and measures, and it looks like they are based on the previous chapter of Ngā Kōkiri, and this is your KPIs, right? This is your outcomes and your KPIs. Have we achieved anything? What does this achievement look like? Good, bad, or could be improved, or whatever. Um, and there you've got a, I guess a, as you say, a framework for indigenising your approach to health and safety.

Jodhi: 31:01

Yeah, I I really have to say this, is that a lot of organisations, when we presented Haumaru Tāngata, a lot of people were sending their Māori business, Māori businesses were seen as like the ones who need this. And then that's sent in Māori workers. But really, Haumaru Tāngata isn't written for Māori. It was purposely written so that it matched a known model within the health and safety system, which is elements, sub elements, guidance, KPIs. It's meant for non Māori organisations. And it's meant to help support them, or more so for them to understand the impact. Because they have not indigenized their behavior, they can't expect changes with their workers. But once you start indigenizing and engaging, you will see a change. And the only way these changes can occur is where you move outside of your world, your te au and start to think across other worlds and other values and other cultures and broaden your minds. Because you're not about, it's not about bringing others into your world, you actually need to go into their world and travel outside of what is normal.

Greg: 32:19

Yeah, absolutely. Time to put you on the spot. Okay. And you've already given us a heap of advice, but really the last sort of question is, A couple of points for, joe average health and safety practitioner out there. What are a couple of things that they can do to, I don't know, better understand this, provide the reasons to their management and their leadership as to why this should be, a part of their program. What can I do as a health and safety professional?

Jodhi: 32:52

That's a good question. Why should you implement Haumaru Tāngata? Because we have far too many Māori who are being hurt. Māori have 51 percent more likelihood of being harmed in the workplace. On top of that, many of the roles that we do are in high risk industries. We die earlier, and yet we contribute all of our life. To the scheme, the pension and what have you, and yet we do not access it as long as others do. We have so much that we can add to help to improve and reduce workplace harm. And if we look at it, we need more workers. We have a large proportion of young Māori who are going to, who are going to in the next 50 years, they're going to be a large proportion of our population. So if we want to ensure that we have growth without having to go externally from New Zealand for that growth, we need to ensure that they are upskilled and they are kept safe. It's the right thing to do. I don't know anything more than to say it's just the right thing to do. We, if I was to give you some advice about how to implement this though, the first place I'd say is to understand the own privilege that you have. So understand that you already through your birthright have come with privilege already. And so it's to acknowledge that also we don't know everything. But we need to be on the journey towards it, so introduce some cultural competency workshops. First place to start, maybe go out and engage with your own, the tangata whenua, the people of the land around you. Talk to them and practice cultural humility. I know that you, as your business, if we want to talk about productivity, your productivity will improve as well. If your workers are engaged and they're happy, they're more likely to go above and beyond what you require of them. They'll also actively support and encourage others to stay safe in their business, which will in long, like money. A lot of times when we're approaching businesses, It's about money. If I were to say, Haumaru Tāngata will reduce those costs. A lot of those costs that you're experiencing now, it'll also increase productivity because people are engaged, people are happy and people will want to do what's right because they know what's right as well.

Greg: 35:22

But yeah. We're talking about inclusion, right? People will feel included. Or more included, and that leads to, if I was to put it in an I guess in an English context organizational citizenship, where we all feel like we're citizens of the organization, and as you said, if we're in that situation, we will go above and beyond what our job description says.

Jodhi: 35:46

We'll be the biggest advocates. That's the thing is that once you have set that standard and it's an expectation and it becomes the norm, other people will gravitate towards that because they're like, man, you love your job. What is it about your job? They can't, they won't be able to put their finger on it, but it just, they just seem like it's an enjoyable job. It's a great place to work. You will retain your staff, you have less who are unhappy in their roles and you'll naturally have people who will come and they'll stay for longer in, in the workplace.

Greg: 36:19

Nice. So where can we go to connect with you, find out more about Haumaru Tāngata websites. Is it LinkedIn or all of the above?

Jodhi: 36:31

The best place is www.trma so that's. TRMA.Co.nz, otherwise you can find us on LinkedIn. It's probably easier just to go to the website, so our full name is Te Ropu Marutau o Aotearoa. But TRMA for short, and you can find us there. Otherwise we're on LinkedIn, we're on Facebook.

Greg: 36:50

And you're on, available on LinkedIn? Yes, hey, great session, loved talking to you. Really, congratulations on getting this this framework put together and out there and I'm certainly, up for promoting it as much as we can and I know you've got some promotional activities coming up with various webinars and presentations and conferences and stuff, so I hope that it all goes well and yeah, looking forward to tracking its progress Thanks very much for the time.

Jodhi: 37:20

All righty, thank you so much.

Greg: 37:23

What a wonderful discussion, Jodhi delved into the Haumaru Tāngata framework and explored how it aims to address higher workplace harm statistics among the New Zealand Māori in high-risk industries like forestry and construction. She discussed how it offers a culturally responsive approach to health and safety, enhancing workplace practices without replacing existing systems. We discussed the four components made up of principles, ngā rau, cultural practices, ngā ara tikanga, interventions ngā kōkiri and outcomes ngā hua, and how the framework integrates Māori values and practices into workplace health and safety promoting a holistic approach that considers wellbeing alongside safety. Jodhi emphasized the importance of engaging Māori workers as cultural advisors within their workplaces, rather than seeking external consultants. Jodhi's work and in fact, the work of TRMA underscores the significance of culturally informed approaches and improving health and safety outcomes for Maori workers advocating for inclusive practices that respect and integrate Māori values into everyday workplace operations. The words of Rick Fox, are ringing in my ears. Rick spoke recently at the safeguard conference and as a previous guest on this podcast. At the conference, he put up a slide with the words,"My personal jealousy", and an image of the Haumaru Tāngata booklet. He explained how, as a proud first nations man from Australia. How jealous of the work being done by TRMA he was. A great acknowledgement of what Jodhi and her TRMA Whanau are doing to improve Māori wellbeing outcomes in workplaces. So we've come to the end of this episode, thanks so much for listening. I hope you found something valuable that you can take away that might enhance aspects of your own cultural intelligence. I'll add the transcript from the episode to the show notes. And there'll be some other resources available as well. If you'd like to talk about cultural intelligence, get in touch with me via LinkedIn. I'm posting content regularly. So keep an eye on your feed. And comment if you see something that resonates. If we aren't connected, send me an invite. If you want to hear more about CQ, you can follow and subscribe to this podcast, I would really appreciate it if you did that, and keep an eye out for the next episode. This was actually the last episode in season one. We'll be back later in the year with season two with a heap of new guests. As we dig deeper into cultural intelligence. Thanks again for tuning into the Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional. Ka Kitei