Self Assessment, Reflective Practice and Active Participation

The Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional is back for season 2 with a great line up of guests from New Zealand and around the world. In episode 1 we talk again to crowd favourite Jodhi Warwick Ponga about enhancing cultural intelligence through a Māori lens. 

Our conversation focused on how individual leadership and behavior can promote cultural intelligence within an organization. As we know, leadership is a series of moments where individuals demonstrate cultural intelligence, which can influence others and create a movement. 

We talked about the development of cultural intelligence among safety professionals and emphasized the significance of cultural intelligence as a learnable skill, and how this can be facilitated through the use of the self-reflective assessment tool, ko au te ao, created by Te Ropu Marutau o Aotearoa. You can find out more about this by visiting the following link
 https://www.trma.co.nz/ko-au-te-ao.

I have distilled our conversation into 5 Key Points, first:

1.      Cultural Intelligence is a Learnable Skill: which can be developed and improved through self-assessment, reflective practices, and active participation in cultural experiences.

2.      The Self-Reflective Assessment Tool: developed by TRMR which is based on the Haumaru Tangata framework can help individuals and organizations enhance their cultural intelligence.

3.      The goal of the tool is to empower individual health and safety representatives to become cultural catalysts within their organizations, driving change through their own personal growth and influence.

4.      Encouraging whānau participation in the workplace, expanding cultural competency training, fostering partnerships with Māori organizations, and embedding cultural values into policies are essential steps for cultural integration.

5.      Participating in cultural activities and being curious about colleagues' traditions, and pushing through anxieties when engaging in new cultural experiences can lead to valuable learning and growth.

#connection #engagement #value #culturalintelligence

Transcript

Greg: 0:01

Hi, everyone welcome to another episode of the Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional, a podcast aimed at providing a platform where by safety professionals can develop a pathway to enhance their cultural intelligence capability which will help them function more effectively when working in a multicultural situation. I'm Greg Dearsly your host and I have a range of guests lined up to talk to this year. We have people with experiences across leadership psychology, health and safety, education and of course cultural intelligence. All of our guests come from a wide range of different backgrounds across the diversity spectrum, including from different organizational context. In this podcast you'll hear stories aimed at helping you the listener enhance your cultural intelligence. You'll gain an understanding of how you can create trust when working in diverse environments and quite frankly, that's all the time no matter how homogenous the place you work at might be, it's still full of diversity, people with different backgrounds, experiences and beliefs, all built on their figured world. Ok team, you've heard from her before and she's back on the Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional podcast to share some stories about what she's been up to since we last spoke. Jodhi Warwick-Ponga, trustee of TRMR and head of all sorts of cool things at Vertical Horizons. Welcome back e hoa, wonderful to have you on the show again.

Jodhi: 1:32

Well kia ora Greg, tēnā koe mea ngā kai whakarongo katoa. So that means greetings to you and to all the listeners out there, it's really exciting to be back.

Greg: 1:41

Kia ora. Yeah, awesome. So, last time we spoke, it was the last episode of season one of, the podcast. What sort of wonderful mahi have you been up to since then?

Jodhi: 1:55

Quite a bit actually, but, just by way of introductions, because I know last time we spoke I was like, Oh, I forgot to do a mihi, and I forgot to share my pēpeha. So I thought this time around I'm not going to miss this opportunity. So I'm going to jump into it and just share a little bit about the traditional way of introducing ourselves, within a Māori context. So I'll share that with you. So ko Takitimu te waka, ko Aorangi te maunga koro Mahanga te awa, ko Ngāti Kahungunu ki Wairarapa tōku iwi, ko Jodhi Warwick Ponga ahau. So briefly what I shared then was about my waka or the canoe that my whānau came on, which was Takitimu. And I also spoke about my ancestral mountain, which is Aorangi, which is in the South Island. And also Ruamahanga, which I spoke about then is the, the awa or the waters that I, affiliate to. And my iwi or my tribe that I belong to is Ngāti Kahungunu ki Wairarapa. So that's that's just a formal way of introducing your pepeha, and it's a lovely way to start connecting with your audience as well. So, I wanted to reiterate though that I'm a learner of all of cultural intelligence, cultural everything, I'm still on a journey, and my te reo as well, it's a journey. Something that I hope that will never end, but it's, every day is a learning day for me. But yeah, what have I been up to these last, oh, couple of months, maybe a little bit more? A lot. One of the things that we've had the opportunity to do since we last caught up was that my colleague Moira Loach and I, we spoke at HASANZ, which is the New Zealand Health and Safety Association. For all health and safety professionals and that was pretty exciting.

Greg: 3:41

Outstanding presentation.

Jodhi: 3:42

Yeah, actually it was with, so Moira and I presented lots. That particular, conference though was with Benji Hemi, and I'd like to think that it was a great opportunity for us to get out there and share more about our framework, Haumaru Tangata, and also a little bit more about being culturally responsive in the workplace. And also bring that, tie that all together about how it also works within our own homes and in our own communities. We've done some more work with, the Government Health and Safety Lead, where we've, tried to introduce a new self-assessment or a new self-reflective tool. The working title is a working title. I still haven't come up with like a, a full new name for it. I'm calling it though, Whakatōkia Ngā Kākano Mō Te Oranga, meaning, the literal translation is that we plant the seeds for well-being. The intent again was about self-reflection, and then it's the opportunity for health and safety professionals and practitioners, but more so for health and safety reps, to actually reflect on their own practices in regards to the Haumaru Tangata framework. And then to potentially support and understand how, how they can perhaps change some of their activities or, or understand the impacts that their current practices have, but then understanding that there are ways that they can slightly change some of their practices to improve and to have that more holistic approach in their roles as reps, practitioners and professionals.

Greg: 5:26

Nice. Well, so much in there. I want to go back to your pepeha and, just comment that, maybe it's, it's why we have managed to connect so well is that I was brought up in Wairarapa. So we've got that, connection. And as you say, that's the whole point of the thing, right? Is to, is to create connection between whoever it is you're, you're engaging with and, talking with. So that was cool. Thank you. The presentation, at HASANZ. One of the things I remember was, actually when you guys weren't on stage, and somebody posed a question to the WorkSafe representative and, and the discussion got a little bit heated. And right at the end, Ben stood up and from the audience and sort of just tried to, I guess, calm the room and just, you know, reflect on the fact that a challenging conversation had been had, and, that, that was ended now, and we should all go back to sort of being, normal, I suppose, and, I thought that was a really telling moment about reflecting Māori culture and how that, he was able to display that, in that particular, moment, which I thought was, was quite, well done.

Jodhi: 6:35

I might, I might touch on that slightly too in a moment, if you like, just to talk...

Audio Only - All Participants: 6:40

Yeah.

Jodhi: 6:41

In New Zealand, well, New Zealand Māori, when we move into a, or we visit a marae, we're welcomed on in a process called a Pōwhiri so that process is a welcome. There's lots of background behind it, but it's to welcome people into this new space. There's actually a space where you're, where you wait outside and then you're called on by a karanga. And then as you walk towards the marae, there's this space in between a, I hope I'm getting it right, it's called a wātea. So just in that space between there and the marae is, this kind of open space. And it's in that space where all the challenges occur. So what Benji and I, more so Benji, I'm going to be real, I've got to do a really, I've got to acknowledge Benji for his intelligence and his responsiveness in this, because Benji recognised that we're in a space where it was challenging. And without a doubt, there was a lot of passion that was flowing and it was interesting watching it because it was flowing on the screen. So what Benji did was, and I recognize it only now, is that... In that space when there is challenging times, that's the only space where you can challenge. But then as you, the karanga finishes off and you move closer into the marae part, there is that moment there where you self-reflect before you enter into the marae and you take off your shoes. And there's just this last one part of the karanga and that means that there is no more challenges that to occur and we come in peace. So what Benji was doing here was actually, he was using that lullaby, which he actually sang. He sang a lullaby to say that the challenge is now over. Now we come in peace. So, if we, if we can behave like that, it can actually, help to reduce a lot of the conflict that we experience, knowing that there's a time and a place for us to challenge, to, there's a, the God of War in that, Atia area, and that there's a time and a place. But then, at the end of it, we need to bring us back into that time of peace, harmony, and to know that this now ends. And I think that'll be good for us, just in terms of for us as, culturally intelligent people or practitioners. Anyway.

Greg: 9:23

It was just a telling moment, and I thought it was, it was a memorable moment, probably more memorable than most other things that happened at the, at the conference was just that, was, yeah, was, I just, something that stuck with me anyway. And the last thing you mentioned, and I just want to reflect on this, you talked about how people can think about and develop their cultural intelligence and, and, you know, going through this, this assessment process for health and safety reps. And that's absolutely true in terms of. You know, cultural intelligence is a capability or a skill that can be learnt. You know, unlike other things, you know, maybe that's it around, around this where, you know, it is what it is. CQ is something that, you can, you can create a map of, of where your own cultural intelligence sits today and it can identify. progress that you can make to be more culturally intelligent, down the road. So, so yeah, just really keen to, dive into, into this assessment, that you've developed. And, you know, it's all very well for me to sit here and tell people they need to be more culturally intelligent, but, but you and the team at TRMR are really kicking goals and coming up with, with the how-to. So tell me about this resource.

Jodhi: 10:43

I guess to step back and to say, give some context about how it was created or why it was created, is that we created kōteao, which I believe I spoke about last time. And kōrote ao kōtea ko au is a self-reflective tool that was created for organisations based on the Haumaru Tangata framework. And we introduced it at our 2023 conference. And the intent was to, to really enable or allow the opportunity for those who are present. To actually review their organizations against the Haumaru Tangata framework and to understand what their strengths were and what they were doing well within the rau and the ara and those foundational principles and focus areas. And then to, to give them a roadmap so they could create their own roadmap about where there were gaps within their own organization, and how they could fill those gaps. And it was actually a really amazing way we thought was going to be, help us to understand the gaps within the, those who were the participants, and then we could create resources around that. So, just this past, past year and after the conference, we received funding from ACC to roll this out, this quote here, the self-reflective assessment, to roll it out to 30 organizations, which we did. And. We finally presented that report just last week to ACC, which was really, it was great. But one of the things that we learned from doing and going and speaking with these 30 organizations and the individuals within the organizations was that it was great to have this self-assessment tool based on how your organization is performing. But really what we saw was the organizations. just couldn't actually make the change. They were, essentially, there were individuals who could do the self-reflective, assessments, but they didn't actually have the power to make that cultural change across the entire organisation. So they were, and i when you're going through a process like this and you get really excited and, like, yes we can do this and this and you find out all the recommendations that the organisation can, do. but then as a person who's doing this, finding that you have so many barriers that stop you from putting those recommendations in place, it's really hard. Because one person can't change an entire organisation. So one self-assessment can't change an entire organisation. So looking back on it when we were reviewing all of those 30 organisations, we realised that, hey, It feels kind of disempowering when you're in that situation as the individual who's being self-reflective for an organization as a whole. Instead, why don't we assist the individual health and safety rep, the individual health and safety manager or advisor, to change their practices? Not the organization's practices as a whole. So we thought about that and we thought why not do this with health and safety reps. So, in New Zealand we have like for every 20 people within a working group. There is a, a legislative requirement to have one health and safety rep within that 20. And so we thought, hmm, if there are a hundred in an organization that's five people who potentially have the ability to then go out and influence within their own working group, So, we took Haumaru Tangata once again, and we looked at ways in which we could ask questions for individual practitioners, health and safety reps, and create questions so that they could, self-reflect on their own practices, and then to provide them with a report, a personalised report, for how they can change their individual practice. Now, That is not scalable in any way. If you have like 7,000, it was, oh, it was even hard because our first kōteao, our first self-reflective assessment, it was a spreadsheet. It was an Excel spreadsheet. It was clunky. You couldn't get data back straight away, it was so painful. But you know we work on the smell of an oily rag and that's what we had access to, so that's why we used that Excel spreadsheet. And we audited, not audited, but we supported the assessment of those 30 organizations within Excel spreadsheet. This time around, unknowing about how many numbers we might have, we've actually now put it into a form. It's still not perfect, it's a Microsoft form, but what it does is it enables us to get all this data back in real time and also to, to allow people to, to do this individually, and it's a scalable model at the moment. We've also created in behind a Chat GPT, so it's an individual GPT and we've thrown in a whole lot of info and all our resources into this GPT and it can shoot out a report at the end of it, which is what you experience when you filled in yours. So that's, that is the intent behind it. Obviously, though, with any AI, you still have to read every report, but in regards to this, Why we have done this is because we know that organisations take far too long to, it's like turning an ocean liner on a dime. It takes too long for the organisation to, to change for its people who want the change to occur quickly. But those people who want change, Things to change quickly. They can only change within their own individual practices, and then they can only influence within their, their working group. So the intent of our new Whakatōkia Ngā Kākano me te Oranga, the self-reflection, is to change, to support the individual to grow and develop, and then in turn influence those within their own space. And that's why we did it that way. It's

Audio Only - All Participants: 16:51

a new development tool, right?

Jodhi: 16:53

Yeah, it's a new development tool, definitely.

Greg: 16:57

And it's, it's, it's helping, individuals become cultural catalysts, in their organisation, through a little bit of introspective reflection. And, and I think what you've talked about really is sowing the seeds of, of creating leaders, right? Because if I'm changing my behaviour. Ledership over time. Leadership's about moments. Leadership is is about how I behave in the moment, that, in a way that shows leadership to others. And if I start as one person who's, who's starting to promote more, cultural intelligence personally, and then my, my mate picks up on that and does the same thing, and then all of the health and safety reps do the same thing, all of a sudden and you've got a bit of a leadership movement, and maybe... The leadership of the organisation will go, Hey, look at this, what's happening over here. This is pretty cool. Let's see what we can do to support that and, and maybe roll it out to the rest of the organisation or, you know, help everybody else become more aware of, of some of these things. So I think that's, is that sort of how you'd see it?

Jodhi: 18:06

Yeah, it's a socialisation, so it's about socialising and normalising these practices. And without having the need to implement, so, without having the need to implement like formalized processes and policies, it becomes part of what's normal behavior.,

Greg: 18:24

Yeah absolutely. So you do the assessment, and you get a report, and so I've got my report here. And I just wanted to go through, for those that are listening, just some of the high level things that the report says, and then maybe you can just dig a little bit deeper into, into that stuff. My report, gives me some ngā mahi e te wāhi ake, which is practical steps to implement change, and says I could look into whakatipu iti oranga, which is about enhancing well-being at my workplace through encouraging whānau participation and embedding tikanga into health and safety processes. It says I can focus on whakamohio and whakahoki matauranga which is about building knowledge and capability through expanding my cultural competency training and also creating feedback channels and I thought that was quite an interesting one when we start digging into what sits behind that. And I can look at ngā hōngonga Motuhaki, so that's about holistic integration and fostering partnerships with Māori organisations. And also highlighting Māori leadership. And finally it talked about, te whakau i te tēkanga, which is about, embedding cultural values into policies and promoting success stories. So that was the suite of recommendations, and then sitting below all of that was a bunch of practical actions, I suppose. Do you want to just talk through some of that recommendation stuff and, and, and how that all comes together?

Jodhi: 20:00

You know, yeah, no, that's absolutely fine. What I, one thing about, I remember your particular, your particular self-reflections through your assessment. You're in a unique position in that you have this podcast, you have gone through a lot of effort to learn more about Māori culture and be culturally responsive across all cultures as well. If it was someone who was not at your level, some of the basic things that the recommendations that may have come out would be like, you know, why not show curiosity about asking your colleagues about their cultural traditions or about their holidays? What are they celebrating? I know that here in the office, at Vertical Horizons recently we had a colleague and it's It was Diwali and he shared with us food, kai, and he also brought in some of the clothing that they wear, some of their traditional clothing. And then he did a short, a short little brief about what the cultural significance of Diwali was for him and his family. And then there was this opportunity for us to actually ask questions, to talk more about it. So for those who are learning to understand a little bit more and wanting to grow in their cultural understanding and cultural awareness, it starts with some of those foundational things. Show curiosity about your colleagues. You can participate in cultural awareness workshops and read. There's so much available out on the internet at the moment about cultural awareness. And participate in informal cultural celebrations. So, once a year we have Matariki here in New Zealand. We also have, Te Wiki o te Reo. So Matariki is, it's, it's the Māori New Year. It's a time for reflection, also setting goals. And then we also have Te Wiki o Te Reo Māori, which is Māori Language Week. So celebrating those, those are really foundational things. Other things we can do is, if we're already doing those things, the next thing we can actually do, if we want to stretch a little bit further, is we can volunteer and be part of creating and planning those events. So if there's a special Matariki or Te Wiki or Te Reo Māori, be part of actually doing something within your office or within your workplace or where you have influence to bring an element of those cultural celebrations or Diwali. We also have things, you know, when you, when you go somewhere, really extend yourself and go into the community and visit areas. So for me, I know I, I just went to Australia, but one thing I make a point of, and recently when I was in Australia with my daughters is we made a point of visiting a different areas where there are definite, different ethnicities. So going into their supermarkets, going into their markets and hearing the various language around you and the culture, eating the different foods, watching the way in which they engage with one another, those all increase your, your cultural understanding and your cultural awareness. But it doesn't mean that you have to travel overseas. You can do that in different regions and different areas within your own country and what have you. So that's one of the things that I find a value is anywhere I go. I'm like, let's go check out their markets and see what they're like. And then if you wanted to extend a little bit further from that, the next step that you as an individual can do is you can start Being a mentor and a coach to your team members and really supporting them to help them to understand how they can can work confidently within the culture that you have, and to share those interactions and how best to, how they can navigate through them. And then, stretching a little bit further, is start advocating for organisational policies and procedures that prioritise, those cross-cultural learning opportunities, where your organisation may not have cultural awareness workshops. Why not, if you have stretched to the point where you want to do a little bit more, start advocating for the opportunities where you can ask for those to be provided to yourself and staff members. But your report though, In terms of for the layout, very generic in terms, for its layout, we gave like feedback, it talks about the feedback that you gave to us. And then we essentially regurgitate it back to you, acknowledge what you have said, and then provide some understandings about how you, how you can improve. So, some of those actions that we spoke about was about whakatipu i te oranga, so enhancing the well-being. And that's not only your own well-being, but also enhancing the well-being of those around you. So one of the recommendations that we suggested was that you encourage whānau participation. So within your space, We often forget that whānau is a significant part of many cultures, or family is a, many cultures, they value family, so it's about ensuring that we, we allow that space for family to come and to participate in discussions about health and safety. I think about my own son in the journey, well one of my, one of my sons, my twins. And our son, he had a workplace injury and it was quite considerable where he couldn't return to work for six weeks. Thankfully it was more to do with his shoulder and the nature of the work, being that he lifted a lot. It was heavy steel on his shoulder. But what it, what I recognized was left out in his return to work plan was that there was no opportunity for his family to be involved in that. There was no opportunity for his family to participate in the investigation for how the injury occurred. So, being his mother and going a little bit mama bear, I injected myself into that. So, and it was the first time I'd ever had that experience where whānau were involved in the investigation and were able to provide, and the whānau directly provided feedback to the health and safety manager, and it was the first time also that had whānau involved in the return to work plan, and it was more so that they could understand the impact of This return to work plan to ensure that it took a holistic approach to ensuring that Mason's mana when he returned back to work was, whilst it was diminished because of that workplace injury, that there was still mana for him for when he returned and he could still, through his acts and contributions, while it wasn't his same job, he was still able to support the workplace in other areas with light duties. So it was a, still a mana enhancing opportunity.

Greg: 27:05

Thats an interesting point, because I remember reading recently, and I think it was off the back of a forestry fatality or something, where the whānau had been able to get into the workplace and, maybe they'd been interviewed later, or there was some sort of media attention about it, and hadn't really realised the type of work that their family member was actually doing, and so it was, you know, it was a bit of an eye opener for them in terms of the environment that they were working in, and so yeah, I guess out of that, just came that increased knowledge and understanding, of, what was going on at the time.

Jodhi: 27:43

We must have been reading the same article. I think one of the things that was really prevalent or, really interesting Most family don't understand the work that you do. Sometimes, and I know especially when I was a lot younger, we used to try and separate work from home. But the reality is, is that work and home, they actually work together. Because what you bring from home, You bring to your work and you also, whether you like it or not, a lot of the behaviours and attitudes and things and those cultural values, you also have them within your workplace too, be it maybe a different kind of culture, but those shared values and beliefs, you also bring them home and they shape Your home life as well. So with that particular, study, I remember thinking and my one of my colleagues, Moira, she shared in ACC when we were presenting to them, she talked to them about, You know, what's stopping us from having whanau days? Those days where we come in and we can talk about the work that we do, the machinery that we do, why it's so important for actually dad to make sure, dad or mum, to make sure that they're hydrated because their work involves being outdoors. There's a reason why they take so much, such a big lunch to work. Because they burn a lot of, that energy off and they need to have something sustaining for the whole time. There's a reason why a mum and dad need to actually be in bed early and can't stay up late. And then, but also the whānau can then come back and see what's happening, why they, they really do need to actually look after themselves holistic, holistically at home and also work. But the whānau can see, the whānau can actually see their work environment, can see the, the, the tasks that are performed, but in turn, the workplace then also can see the whānau and know that this individual doesn't come to work by themselves. There's a whole community in behind that they are supporting and they have to continue to stay healthy for that whānau as well. So it's a, it's a, it's a win-win situation for both the whānau and the workplace. But again, that, that is, by doing that takes a lot of emotional and cultural intelligence to do those sort of activities.

Greg: 30:19

Yeah, absolutely. So we're sort of moving towards the end, but I just do want to pick up on a couple of points. Firstly, you talked about going to Australia and getting out into different markets and places. And one of the things that they talk about in cultural intelligence is the concept of international travel. And, and maybe myth-busting that international travel on its own doesn't mean you're going to be more culturally intelligent. What you need to do and what you've reflected a little bit is, is actually getting away from the touristy areas. Now going to the tourist hotspot is not going to make you culturally intelligent, but going out to a community, you talked about a community sort of supermarket type scenario, getting into the everyday lives of, of the people that live in that place, is, is where the cultural intelligence comes from. So that's, that's sort of, I guess, a bit of a myth buster that just because your passport's full doesn't mean that, doesn't mean you're necessarily going to be culturally intelligent. I just wanted to finally finish on a couple of, just a couple of examples, I suppose, of some stuff that I've recently done to enhance my, my cultural intelligence, both related to, to te ao Māori. And the first one, which everybody in New Zealand had the opportunity to do, and I'm sure many did, was watch the tangihanga for the Kingitanga and, and just, just be curious about why certain things happened the way they happened. You know, buried in an unmarked grave on top of a hill. And the reasons for that sort of thing. And, and, all of the, the, there was reasons and, and I guess cultural, norms as to why certain things happened along that, I don't know how long it was, several hour process from when he left the marae to when he got to the top of the, of the mountain. So that was, that was, yeah, as I say, a part of enhancing my, my own CQ. Recently I've become involved in the local community here developing a community development plan. We've never had one. And the first meeting was. At the local marae. So we, you know, we, we went through that, that welcome process, with the karanga and, and walking through, into the marae and, and having, in fact, we actually had the meeting out, is it the ātea out in the, out front of the marae, and then went, or had the speeches, sorry, outside, and then went into, into the, to one of the other rooms and had a bit more of a formal sort of meeting and some kai, and went through that process. And I don't, I don't know how many opportunities, you know, Pākehā New Zealanders get to do that, but it's, it's pretty cool, to, to experience that. So, yeah, just a couple of things that I've done recently to, that, that have. contributed to my understanding and knowledge around some of that stuff.

Jodhi: 33:28

How did you feel? I'm going to throw the question back at you. How did you feel during that process and then afterwards connected?

Greg: 33:36

One of the things, and it's interesting, I've got a longer story I could tell about Koha. And, but in this case, you know, this meeting had been organized by the council, and I guess in collaboration with the, with the local iwi. And, I thought, oh, I wonder if we need to take koha. Now, surely the council's organized something along that way. And just before we went in, you know, somebody stood up and said, You know, anybody got a koha for the marae? And I mean, I'm a cashless person, so I wasn't able to do anything. But now I know, I know a lot more about the process around koha. And, and so I learned some stuff. I think there was a lot of respect, Both ways, to the manuhieri from the tangata whenua. And and equally, you know, respect for being invited into that place. There was a couple of people in the group who probably were a little bit ignorant about some of the processes. And and you know, had to have a quiet word said to them, you know, before we entered. I mean, I had been on a marae several years ago as part of my leadership, masters and, and, you know, was just watched the whole process around the food preparation, and, and how all of that works. And then to see it over several weeks as part of the tangihanga, you know, and obviously that was thousands of people rather than about 20, which was our case. But, just, you know, the, the process of, of having that meeting, the kai, and just the sharing of, of conversation, and, that, that was all pretty cool. And, and, and yeah, just coming out of it, looking forward to the next opportunity whenever that comes up. Because it was pretty cool.

Jodhi: 35:31

The reason I asked that question is I was curious to see if there, what your before and after might have been like as well. I know that even any time that I can, I will go onto marae and participate in the powhiri the introduction or that welcoming process or the mihi whakatau, which is a less formal process for welcoming someone into a, into an area. There's always nervousness and there's always an apprehension. There's a little anxiety as well for, for people and, and, that's normal. I just want to, I really want to say that's normal to feel, to feel that. But it's important that you push through those anxieties, those cultural uneasiness, we're not quite sure. It's better to push through. Those then to not have that opportunity. A lot of people miss out on opportunities because they're unsure and they're not maybe quite ready for those sort of things. but push through it and then afterwards, afterwards, reflect on on that anxiety a little bit. Because the only way that we learn is when we push ourselves out of our comfort zones. So I had an experience, where we were trying to organise a, a wānanga or a noho, it was actually going to be a noho marae, which meant we slept there for two nights for work. There was pushback from it, I'm going to be honest, and it was really like, why? Why is there pushback? And what I realised was that my, my team were really anxious. And perhaps me wanting to have this noho was not the best idea. Perhaps I needed to take a softly, softly approach to this and not do a sleepover on a marae, where everyone's worried about snoring and worried about this and worried about that. There's far too many anxieties. So instead what we did was we changed it to a wānanga, meaning we had the, we went through the powhiri process, and then they went and stayed somewhere else. So we had the wānanga on the marae and I loved watching everyone's anxieties being kind of, you could literally see it just wash away from them and that they felt so at home when we were in those Three days of just sitting together and meeting and training in a marae, within that te ao Māori space where we had karakia and waiata and it was, and we were fed and we were loved and we, we, we actually had that opportunity to actually have robust discussions, but knowing That the robustness stopped, but then it stopped usually during the kai time. And then once we came back, the robustness started again. But there is nothing wrong with that. But what it also taught us was that our previous meetings that we've had with previous leaders, that, without having that cultural element to it, that, that intellectual honesty, that cultural intelligence. It meant that we went away from those sort of meetings feeling kind of yuck, kind of like we have robust discussions, but they weren't, they were more argumentative. Whereas under this this this framework of being a te ao Māori space, this cultural safety, where we could speak freely, knowing that we could speak freely, but we still appreciated everyone's values and the conversations that they brought with them. So, As much as I, as much as I wanted to have this nōho, I realised that softly, softly approach can still work well. So if your team's and you want them to have a cultural experience, sometimes they're not ready for all of it, but then start with baby steps and then slowly they will become part of it. I love. I love, too, that we introduce different languages, too. We had a Portuguese-Spanish-speaking team member, and so he did his mihi, because at the end, you know, you want to do a mihi to, or give thanks to those people who prepared the food, the kai, and so he did a mihi to them in Portuguese. It was really cool to hear that on the marae. And we sang a waiata that we'd just learnt. But yeah, softly, softly approach if they're not ready for it.

Greg: 39:52

So, you know what the drill is at the end of this podcast? Is, it's a couple of recommendations or suggestions of what... Health and safety professionals can do to enhance their cultural intelligence. I'm going to give you that one as one, about the softy softly approach. So maybe you've got one or two others, and particularly in relation to maybe your, your self-reflection tool, I know it's primarily focused at HSRs, but I'm sure that there's health and safety professionals out there who are sort of, have got some involvement in the network of health and safety reps at their organisations. How can they get involved?

Jodhi: 40:35

I'm going to give you two. How's that? The first I'll say is... Come and do this assessment. Actually, I'm going to give you three. Do the self-assessment and let's see what comes up with it. I'll, I'll share the link with Greg and he can post it up. I don't know how many people, how, what your listeners, how many listeners you have, but let's see what comes out of it. So the first one I'd suggest is reflect on your personal past. Challenges that you had where you were, you were challenged in some way with some of those cross cultural interactions. Identify what you think you could do better. You've been listening to this, these podcasts and the series or the both of the theories. Think about some of the things that you could perhaps change. And the second one I actually say is ask some of your colleagues to give you feedback. about how you can improve some of your own cultural interaction. I'm sure that all of your organizations that you work within aren't so homogenous, aren't so singular, that there aren't, isn't diversity. Maybe, even ask some of your friends, family, too, to give you some feedback about how you can change some of your own practices. And I think you'll be, you may be surprised at the feedback that you receive, but it takes a bit of cultural humility to receive that as well. So before you do ask for feedback, be prepared.

Greg: 42:02

Yeah, no, those are cool and, and, absolutely, things that we would suggest. You know, you, you do to enhance your cultural intelligence. That's a real, that first one is really interesting around, around identifying which cultural norms challenge you. That's, you know, that, that's a, that's a, a really fascinating question to ask yourself. And the ask for feedback one, is a good one as well. So, so, Jodie, thanks so much for your time, and yeah, we'll put the link up to, to the, to the assessments that people can, use if they, if they want to, and or maybe get in touch with you to talk about, you know, how it might work for their organization. So just, I really appreciate your time. Today and yeah, thanks for the chat.

Jodhi: 42:54

Awesome. Not a problem. Really. That's a big thank you to you, Greg and also to your listeners as well for your support and also for your aroha or love.

Greg: 43:12

Again, a discussion full of gold nuggets from Jodhi about enhancing cultural intelligence through a Māori lens. Our conversation focused on how individual leadership and behavior can promote cultural intelligence within an organization. As we know leadership is a series of moments where individuals demonstrate cultural intelligence which can influence others and create a movement. I love the story about Jodhi getting involved in her son's return to work plan and the investigation of his workplace injury. This really emphasized the holistic approach needed to maintaining mana, or dignity of a person, following such an event. And also the importance of engaging Whanau in work processes. We talked about the development of cultural intelligence among safety professionals. And emphasize the significance of cultural intelligence as a learnable skill, and how this can be facilitated through the use of the self reflective assessment tool created by TRMR. I've distilled our conversation into five key points. Firstly, Cultural Intelligence is a learnable skill which can be developed and improved through self-assessment, reflective practices, and active participation in cultural experiences. The self-reflective assessment tool developed by TRMR, which is based on the Haumaru Tangata framework can help individuals and organizations enhance their cultural intelligence. Next. The goal of the tool is to empower individual health and safety representatives to become cultural catalysts within their organization. Driving change through their own personal growth and influence. The fourth point, encouraging Whanau participation in the workplace, expanding cultural competency training, fostering partnerships with Māori organizations and embedding cultural values into policies are essential tips for cultural integration. And finally participating in cultural activities and being curious about colleagues, traditions and pushing through anxieties when engaging in new cultural experiences can lead to valuable learning and growth. So we've come to the end of this episode, thanks so much for listening. I hope you found something valuable that you can take away that might enhance aspects of your own cultural intelligence. I'll add the transcript from the episode to the show notes. And there'll be some other resources available as well. If you'd like to talk about cultural intelligence, get in touch with me via LinkedIn. I'm posting content regularly. So keep an eye on your feed. And comment if you see something that resonates. If we aren't connected, send me an invite. If you want to hear more about CQ, you can follow and subscribe to this podcast, I would really appreciate it if you did that, and keep an eye out for the next episode.