The Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional S2E5 Perserverance and a bit of Jugaad

Cultural Intelligence & Workplace Safety: Why It Matters More Than Ever 

In health and safety, we often focus on compliance, technical skills, and risk management. But what about cultural intelligence (CQ)—the ability to adapt and connect across cultural differences? In this episode, I had an insightful conversation with Hema Puthran, a seasoned health and safety professional, about how cultural intelligence plays a critical role in creating safer workplaces.

Hema shared powerful stories, including:

✅ How her social work background shaped her approach to health & safety
✅ A fascinating story about persuading a Sikh truck driver to rethink his PPE choices—without disrespecting his faith
✅ The generational and cultural barriers to implementing safety changes in small businesses
✅ Why patience and understanding are just as important as rules and policies 

Key takeaway: Cultural intelligence isn’t about forcing compliance—it’s about understanding perspectives, building trust, and helping people make informed choices.

If you're working in a diverse environment, CQ isn't optional—it's essential.

Transcript

Greg: 0:05

Hi, everyone welcome to another episode of the Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional, a podcast aimed at providing a platform where by safety professionals can develop a pathway to enhance their cultural intelligence capability which will help them function more effectively when working in a multicultural situation. I'm Greg Dearsly your host and I have a range of guests lined up to talk to this year. We have people with experiences across leadership psychology, health and safety, education and of course cultural intelligence. All of our guests come from a wide range of different backgrounds across the diversity spectrum, including from different organizational context. In this podcast you'll hear stories aimed at helping you the listener enhance your cultural intelligence. You'll gain an understanding of how you can create trust when working in diverse environments and quite frankly, that's all the time no matter how homogenous the place you work at might be, it's still full of diversity, people with different backgrounds, experiences and beliefs, all built on their figured world. In this episode, we're talking with experienced health and safety professional based in Auckland, Hema Puthran, who is a senior health and safety advisor for Precinct Properties and has held roles in other large corporates in New Zealand, including OCS New Zealand, Regional Facilities Auckland, and Recall. Also, I believe you might have had some time with Fulton Hogan, although maybe not in a health and safety role. Hema's career in health and safety spans 17 years and along with a health and safety qualification, she also has a master's degree in social work, which was obtained from the Tata Institute of Social Sciences in India. Hema, lovely to have you on the show.

Hema: 1:57

It's a pleasure to be here, Greg.

Greg: 1:59

As is normal with this podcast, we generally just get our guests to give a bit of an overview of their history from a career perspective. How did you end up working for a large property development company in Auckland?

Hema: 2:17

When I came here, obviously we had to start afresh, but I knew that when I started afresh as a receptionist for education review office, that's not what I wanted to do. But it was a matter of trying to figure out what kind of profession really held some kind of respect and dignity and trying to find yourself in a new country and all of that. I was working as a project coordinator or a yard manager at Fulton Hogan at this point of time when I had a few exposures to matters related to health and safety and that kind of rang a bell in my head or made me realize that that's, Maybe something that I could look into and I went and enrolled into Massey into the GRAD DIP in OSH paper and I did one paper that I wasn't sure if I wanted to commit to an entire course and I did one paper and I was hooked and I've never looked back since then. So it's just, it just felt that was like a calling, so to speak. Sounds terrible to say that, but no, it, it just felt the right thing to do. And then I just finished my graduation my diploma that is, and then I've just continued doing health and safety in different industries. I've chosen to be a generalist because I love the challenge of. It's moving from one industry to another, and every five years when I move, it's like a year of complete immersion in a new industry, understanding a new work culture, and I think it challenges the brain and teaches you how health and safety works in different industries.

Greg: 3:54

And so when was the when did you do the Massey course?

Hema: 3:58

Oh, I would have finished it in about 2013. I was still in Australia at that point of time. So 2012, 13. Yeah.

Greg: 4:06

Okay. And when we spoke just before Christmas, I think it was you talked about the There was some connections that you found between the master's degree in social work and some of the work that you do in safety. I'm interested just to hear a little bit more about what some of those connections might be and how they helped you with your health and safety career.

Hema: 4:31

One of the key things that you learn when you are in social work is a lot of my placements in social work back in India was in the slums or were in primary health centers and in adoption homes and things like that. So less fortunate. Group of people that you worked with and one of the things that you learn when you go with your middle class values is no matter how well intentioned if you want them to come on the journey, you have to go at their pace. You have to get to their level and. Make everything that you are saying to them identifiable for them to aspire to want to do that. We can't go there with our middle class values to say, hey, you must have a shower every day. You must shave every day. You must wash your clothes every day because that's what we do. But we need to understand that they are living in a slum. They don't have access to water. They don't have access to privacy and, all of those other things. So you have to work from then that I think resonates. in health and safety. When we want people to do all the right things, but we have to start the journey from where they are. And we as health and safety practitioners need to get to have that intelligence, emotional psychological maturity to work with the companies or organizations at where they are and Enable them to want to aspire to get to that best practice place, because then that makes it sustainable. Otherwise, it will happen as long as we are there. And the minute our back is turned, it all falls back because then it becomes person centric. But if we want that culture to change, we would need to work at their level. I think that was my biggest takeaway in terms of relating how my social work training helped me in my health and safety and gives you a little bit of patience and teaches you to persevere and teaches you to explore tools to how to get to the person, how to help people understand what is it that you're trying to say and make health and safety equally important to them as it is important to you.

Greg: 6:45

Fascinating. And if I put a cultural intelligence lens on that, the question sometimes gets asked is whose responsibility is it to change their behavior when they're dealing interculturally? And generally it's the person who is perceived to be in the higher power position, and you talk about, middle class and having to, adapt to the potential thinking of somebody in a lower class space. And it's very similar from a cultural intelligence spaces, who's got the perceived or actual higher power status. And really it is, should be their responsibility to as I say, adapt, and that's what cultural intelligence is all about. And in fact, if we think about the word intelligence is about being able to adapt to a certain situation, and so cultural intelligence is being able to adapt to the scenarios of the other people that you might be dealing with. That's really very interesting. And it's one of those. We talk so much and think so much about our technical skills in health and safety, but then you add all of this other stuff in patience. When was the last time you heard somebody in health and safety use the word patience or be patient? I'm sure that it happens very often. It's got to happen now. Hurry up. Do it.

Hema: 8:10

Yeah.

Greg: 8:13

So I just, I want to explore that a little bit more, actually, and the research between emotional intelligence and cultural intelligence would suggest that you can be, you are more emotionally intelligent, or you can use emotional intelligence more when you're dealing with somebody who is similar or the same as you. But when you are dealing with somebody who is different from you, that's when cultural intelligence kicks in and becomes a value or of value. And I guess you've told me a few stories about scenarios where you've dealt with people from your culture. from a health and safety perspective. One was about I think a pretty regular issue that comes up, I think around the world around respiratory protection for people from the Sikh culture who grow beards. And I guess that's not just restricted to the Sikh culture, but that was the scenario that I've come across and you've got an example of how you dealt with that. And you also talked about. Helping some of your friends and family with businesses in New Zealand and their health and safety, and I think sometimes you've gone into their businesses and gone, do you want to talk a little bit more about that, about how you've interacted with those people? Firstly, maybe the respiratory sort of protection scenario?

Hema: 9:39

So the this gentleman that I was referring to was a truck driver driving a hazardous substances truck and and obviously he was decanting and refilling and he was required to wear the respiratory protection and this is I'm talking going back in the time. Very early in my days of health and safety. And and I noticed from my from where I was in the office that, he wasn't he wasn't clean shaven. So I went up to him and I said, hi, hello. Of course, we knew each other because we were like a handful of Indians in this largely Caucasian group of employees. So we knew each other. And we had nodded at each other a few times. So I went to him and I said to him, I've been noticing that, you've been using it, but you realize that your facial hair doesn't give you a good seal. He says, yeah, I know, what can I do? I'm not going to take my beard off. And I was like, but you're standing here and you're inhaling the fumes. I had that conversation with him and he said yeah, that's it. Fine. And he just said, yeah, you're fine. And he turned away and continued his work. So I walked away and that happened a few times over a period of a few months. And I would, whenever I saw him, I would say to him or I would indicate him, or I would rub my own chin and remind him, Hey, you still got the beard. And I, and he would just laugh and move on. So 1 of these days, we just met at smoko and we were at the same time and he was having his lunch break and I was there at the same time. And and again, I rubbed my chin to show to him hey, you still got your beard and he just laughed and, and I said to him, look. I'm not saying this because I'm some kind of a health and safety fiend, but it is because you are dealing with a hazardous product and you are decanting in and out the whole day. And that's what you're doing. And you're exposed to the the fumes. This product has the following health outcomes, and I said to him, you need to be considerate about the fact that, you've got young children, your wife doesn't work, your parents are in India, you are supporting two families effectively, and if you cannot work because you get sick, or you go on ACC, I know people say you can go on ACC, but you go on ACC, there are like I talked him through many different scenarios and I said to him it is for these reasons that we say that you must have a good respiratory protection and you know you might be doing everything else right but this is pulling you down. He didn't say anything to me at that point of time he just nodded and he finished his lunch and I went my way he went his way and then I didn't see him again for a couple of weeks. But when I saw him next, and I can't remember the timeline of when I saw him actually next, but I didn't recognize him because he had no facial hair and I was absolutely stumped. So I went up to him and I said to him, what happened? And he said, I I realized that Waheguru, which is the God that the Sikhs refer to, which is I said he will understand that. I'm deviating from my cultural norm of having facial hair because I'm doing this for my family and I'm sure that he's not going to be, angry with me and I think that's the reason. And at no point of time did he say that thank you for enlightening me or anything like that, but I think he knew what was there, but he just needed someone to talk to him and Get, go with that journey of that decision making that he might have had to have go through before he could come to that decision. And he, and I just was there, not that I planned it all in that way, but I think that taught me a lesson that it, you, we need to be, we need to persevere and we need to get them to feel that, and that day when he said to me and I saw him clean shaven and he said to me that he was sure his God will be forgiving for me. I felt like that was, that's the reason I get up in the morning to come to work because you see the penny drop sometimes in people's heads in their minds and the light goes on and they're like, Oh, Behind their eyes and you feel like, yes, this is why I do this, that might be one out of many other, but some events stick out in your head.

Greg: 13:49

Yeah, absolutely. That's a, it's a fascinating story. And just on that deviance or deviation from religious norms. That people follow as we were talking before we started, I've just come back from Dubai and we had a, I went on a cultural sort of learning session with a particular organization. And one of the things that. We talked about and this is nothing to do necessarily with India, but it's about Ramadan. And one of the things that that we talked about was the ability within that that process of Ramadan that if fasting during the day is going to impact your health, you are not obliged to and so that could be pregnancy the chap that was talking to us about it was a diabetic. And fasting could impact on his health. So there is a sort of exemption, if you like from participating in in that particular activity for health reasons. And as your example shows your guy was was accepting that there were genuine reasons why this activity of having a beard was maybe not in the best interest of his own health and the health of all that the stability and well being of his family. Yeah. Outstanding. Outstanding. And maybe this is something to think about towards the end of the podcast, and you might have some thoughts about this later, but how would that conversation go with a non Indian person having that conversation with you, with your guy? Maybe hold that thought. I'll give you some time to think about that, and maybe we can come back to it. The other thing that you talked about was and you mentioned to this to me a couple of years ago that that you had, outside of your normal sort of corporate life that, obviously a few people from Indian heritage who have got businesses in New Zealand, and sometimes you will help them out with some of their health and safety work and do you want to just talk about that a little bit?

Hema: 15:57

Sure, I will. A small side business, my husband and I'm I go to places like, warehouse and pickups, not the warehouse, but a warehouse of some kind where they store stuff. This is a warehouse of tiles and other bathroom fittings. And you go there and you wait for your order to be delivered and it comes there and when I went to this particular shop, I saw that the forklift bald tires, the the light wasn't flashing. There was no, beeping sound and it was just like on its last legs, so to speak, and there were no separation or in the warehouse. Everything was overstacked and it was all everything that. You would say you should not in a warehouse was pretty much there. Maybe I'm being unfair by saying everything, but a lot of stuff was quite concerning. So when we had that initial conversation so there was an elderly gentleman who, was the, not the guard, but supervisor managing this warehouse. So I said to him, Hey, I'm happy to help and, just get some few things done here so that you can make sure that the operators are safe. And he, again, he listened to me, but he didn't say much about it. And he said. No, he doesn't want, he didn't say anything, but I don't go to the warehouse very often. So the second time when I went post COVID and I saw it had deteriorated even more. And so I went and spoke to him more and I said to him, uncle, you have not done this. And we need to do this because this will happen, et cetera, et cetera. And he said, Oh, don't worry about it. Child, it's all good health and don't worry about it. I kept continuing to do that, but around the same time, around the same time, we were also, we go grocery shopping to Sandringham or to wherever we have Indian shops there. And I had noticed that, so this gentleman, I didn't have any luck with this gentleman. So I thought, Oh, Maybe I shouldn't push too much. My husband was like, don't spoil my trade relations by your health and safety. So I said, okay, fine. So we I paused that and we were talking to this this grocery shop owner. And I noticed that when I wanted a can of oil or whatever it was that I can't remember now, it was kept at the top. And that guy had to like, Monkey climbed through the racks to get me the 20 liter can and I said to him, why do you store it there? And why don't you keep it here? And he says that is how it was kept. So that is how we are doing it all the time. So when I went to back to pay for my groceries, I said to him, I just noticed that your guy is climbing, clambering over the top to get that thing. Do you not think that it would be easier if you kept the bigger and the heavier things at the bottom? He says no, that is easier for us to stack and manage because people only take small quantities, but the bigger quantities are very rarely asked for. So that is why we keep them there. And when people need it, we get there. putting people at risk. No, they know how to do it. Don't worry about it. I said, okay, fine. And then we went there again a month later and I noticed that those things were still like that. So I went and spoke to again, that the father of the business owner was a father. And I said to him, uncle, that still is there like that. I think it's going to be hard. If somebody falls from there, they'll hurt themselves, or even if that falls on one of your customer's head because it is so overfull and all of that. And he said, Oh no, I'll tell my boys to stack it properly. It's okay. Don't worry about it. So now I said, okay, fine. And all this time, my husband of his with me, he's rolling his eyes always at me for my, this constant health and safety thing. But then the few weeks later, when we went back, there was a son who was there. And I said to the son, I said, I've been talking to your dad and, your dad has been quite he's been quite generous in listening to me. But I just thought I should let you also know that, these things at the top, they're too heavy for these young boys to move and they sometimes are precariously placed position and they're dropping stuff off and they are using ladders that have no just stacking against your racks and it's quite unsafe. And he said, he came around with me, which one are you talking about? And then I showed him and I said to him, this is what happens. And he says, oh, okay, I'll talk to my dad and I'll see what I can do. And surprisingly, when I back, when I went back things had moved, things had changed and all the big things were at the bottom and and the top ones were for, kept with boxes which you would take the entire box down, but not individual sacks of rice or sacks of not sacks, but cans of oil and so on. So I said, Oh, that's a, that's an improvement. So I but on that day the till was the father. So I said, Oh, uncle, that's really good what you've done. I see that, you've changed it. Yes, I know. My son, he's very good. He decided that, all of this is very unsafe. And so he wants to move it down. And I said, son, it is your shop. You can do whatever you want. I said, Oh, that's excellent. Very good outcome, uncle. That's really good. And I walked away from there. But I was just thinking of the difference in the two scenarios. This older gentleman with the warehouse didn't want anything to do, and he was very staunch. He said no, so you leave it alone. And then in this place, you speak to a younger person, and then it suddenly they have hijacked it as their idea, which I have no issue at all, because the outcome is what bothers me. But it was but again, you will see the timeline is, nothing is like in a week's time or two weeks time, which is what we expect in corporate culture, we, as a health and safety person, I come in and I say, oh, here is my health and safety manual, start doing this from tomorrow, and then we have an inspection and nobody's doing it, and we say, ah, these people, they don't do anything, but I think that is where I think we lose our people.

Greg: 21:38

One conversation at a time, yes. And I think the other thing is, and this just goes back to that emotional intelligence conversation as well, me or any non Indian person probably couldn't go into an environment like that and refer to the old gentleman as uncle, that just doesn't work. Right. And they're not going to call me child. But and so that's, I think that's a great reflection of the difference between that emotional intelligence That you're able to explore and use and and as you say, I think the best way to influence is to actually make people think that your ideas with their ideas always works, right? And And so the challenge then becomes, how does a Caucasian or non Indian person respond, react, deal with those types of situations? Because, there are plenty of businesses out there that are Indian run where they might have want to get a health and safety person in but if you come in with your sort of Western ideas around how to do things and when to do them, and got to be done now how do we approach that? How do we talk to people? Who do we talk to? You've talked about even your challenges with generational differences, and that may not be too dissimilar in a Caucasian business or Pākehā business, the older person might just go, Oh, that's the way we've always done it. It's fine type of thing.

Hema: 23:10

Interesting. This is interesting that I've noticed is Indians who work for businesses that are owned by British or Kiwi or somebody who's not an Indian business owner as an employee. they're quite happy to follow whatever is the health and safety expectation. But when they run a business, a small to medium business like that, somehow it's the same country, the same law, similar hazards, similar risks, but they seem to not want to have the same rules. that is applicable to them in the business that they run, which I find quite interesting. And to give you another example, we did some furniture in the house like a few weeks ago, and this guy who came to do the furniture has a full time job working for a small to medium Some kind of a wood making company and he did this wardrobes for us. So he would cut the wardrobes in the in the factory and then come home and install it in our house. And I saw that many, but when he would come to install, he would have to do like little measurements because my house is an 100 year old house and doesn't have right angles at all. He would come in with the measurement and then he would have to come and then trim a little bit and things like that. And then I noticed that he wasn't using any of his PPE at all. So I went to him and I said to him, how do you work like this with no safety shoes and you are not wearing your earplugs when you're using your saw and things like that? He says, oh, yeah, I should have done, right? I said in your off, in your work, do you get away? He says, oh my God, in my work, I can't even walk. 10 steps in the factory without all of these things, the supervisor will immediately catch. And I said, so because there is no supervisor, you're not doing it here. He says, oh, madam sorry, I should have done it. I should have done it. But it is, it's, you see the difference in how it is. It's because it's mandated. They will, there is a willingness to do it. But here, because it's a home, they don't want to do it. And I said to him, Your risk is the same. You're still going to get deaf, whether you are working there or you're working here, or you will still cut your finger if you're not going to wear the right gloves and all. He says no, I agree, but I should have done it. But it's, I think it's just they approach it quite differently when they do it as an employee and then versus when they run their own business. And I have never understood. What is different in that and possibly maybe another few years of study of trying to understand people's mind about and asking them question as to if you are happy to wear your PPE there, why are you not wearing PPE here when you're doing the same job?

Greg: 25:54

Do you think understanding of we don't talk about legislation necessarily, but the standards expected. Is it understanding, as you say, the difference between an employee, when you're an employee, you're told to do ABC, rightly or wrongly. But now I'm a business owner over here and actually, I don't understand. I'm not sure if that would be the situation. The different cultural scenarios about around health and safety and workplaces and translate that from an Indian business in India to an Indian business here.

Hema: 26:26

possibly very likely. But like I said, I have no, I haven't even had that conversation with anyone to even say that. Anecdotally, this is what I think. But I found that very fascinating and I thought I should try and experiment and try and see if this happens more often. So I should go into Indian businesses and see what they do about safety versus what they would do if it was if they were employed somewhere. Like I, because I'm in precinct and I, we have lots of construction and fit out activities and I go to inspect them. There are lots of Indian subcontractors that work for large Kiwi owned companies and I see them all properly kitted out and everything is correctly done and I wonder every now and then I should get that gentleman to come and do some work in my house, just cook up a job so that he can come and then I want to see how he does that job. And then if it is everything remains the same then and I'm like, great he understands why he has to do these things. But if he doesn't, then I have to ask him, why my brother, why?

Greg: 27:29

I mean, is there a context thing there in terms of how Indian people like to be communicated with? Are they a sort of culture that needs lots of detail as to why we're doing something, or are they more casual and just we'll go with the flow? Do we have a, what is expected there a difference there?

Hema: 27:49

Like most people, we all like to be told why we have to do something, and I think that remains the same everywhere. But I think with the most Indians And I, the word I'm going to use now will be familiar to people who are coming from see the northern part of India from Mumbai upwards. So we have something called Jugaad. Jugaad is like the Kiwi number eight wire. It's like a, ingenious Kiwi solution, finding a workaround, finding a way to make it happen despite everything, so that is what we call a Jugaad. So I think a lot of our mindset works with, let's do this with. Minimum effort, maximum output and with and so it's everything is like a Jugaad. So everything has to be like quickly done and you get paid and you move on to the next one kind of things. And I'm sure culturally those kind of things exist in every culture. Every culture will have a word that describes Jugaad for them. And I think and even the number 8 wire that we talk about in Kiwi context, and that is where it is. It is we have to have that thing done. So I just did it this way. And if it works, we say, wow, great innovation. If it doesn't, we say, did not follow the JSA, I think it is very interpretive of that. So I had, I don't have an answer as to why people would do that, but I think a lot of it is our mindset that we want to be here, get the job done, move on to the next one, because ultimately we want to pay our rent and we want to pay the mortgage and, like the usual human motivations that people have.

Greg: 29:34

I was going to say, I think that the number eight wire, I think we think in New Zealand that we're special and that we're the only country in the world or the only culture that has that approach to things. But actually, I think, as you say, I think everybody has a word or a phrase that reflects the same the same thing. So I don't think it's any, anything special. So sorry, you were going to say something.

Hema: 29:53

No, I was just going to say that apart from the fact that, we we want to get things done. I, yeah. People don't really think about health and safety. It has taken almost, what now, 15 years that I've, 15, 17 years that I've been doing health and safety that people still question. I think for the better part of my earlier days, people thought I just did fire evacuation drills and first aid course and things like that in terms of safety. That's what people think. So when I say I'm studying human factors and ergonomics, people say, how much ergonomics can you do? Why is there like a whole course on ergonomics? Because they think of economics as workstation set up and so yeah, I think that understanding and that knowledge is not there as to how scientific and professional this whole space is, part of the education. I think of not just the Indians. I think. People generally.

Greg: 30:52

Yeah, so as we wrap up, I don't know if you've had a chance to multitask and think about our conversation earlier, but Kiwi health and safety person, not Indian, going into a an Indian workplace, how am I going to deal with it? How am I going to, who am I going to talk to? How am I going to talk to them? What are a couple of tips that you've got for us?

Hema: 31:15

There might be some if there are any Indians listening to this podcast, they may disagree with me on this small point, but I think Indians by and large, at least of my, the last would be my generation, I think have a little bit of the colonial hangover. Where we think that the white man has all the answer and that anything that the white man says is worth listening to. The younger kids whether it is in India or whether here it is, they have no such they have no such issues. They're all like unto themselves, they're law unto themselves and they'll do what is right by them. While Kiwi can, Kiwi or a South African or, British, whoever, white person gets into any Indian owned or any ethnic owned business and they will tell them, you must do this way. They will all say, yes sir. But I don't think that there will be a total buy in because there should be the time to be told something, to process that in your head, then to see how that impacts your business, what it does to your bottom line, what it does to your time, to your staff, and all of that takes Some time and most people don't sit down one day and say, I'm not going to think about anything else. I'm going to think about what that person told me and I'm going to try and work out the math. They don't do it like that. It takes time to sit inside, to be in their mind and it festers away and it slowly comes out of the other side, either a yay or a nay. And I think that. is what is important. And most Kiwis when they are in position of power, I think they understand that they need to be they need to they need to be polite and all. So Kiwis are amazingly polite. It took me a few years after coming here to understand that some of the sarcasm that comes out of Kiwi is actually like a way of telling us off for not doing something right. And I just thought it was being funny, but it took me some time, but so Kiwis are exceedingly polite. And I sometimes wonder whether something gets lost in translation when Kiwis in their very polite manner say, Polite is not necessarily culturally intelligent. How many people make the effort to understand why somebody grows a beard? Why is it important for that person to have the beard? What will it mean to the person to not have the beard? I don't think we ask those questions and we need to ask those questions. If we perceive That people are having barriers to convert to what we want them to, then we got to ask them why the barrier and how is that barrier? Is it even a barrier from their perspective? I don't think we asked that question. And that is where those questions that we ask, the curious questions that we ask are very important. And when you get those answers. To not be like, Oh my God how can you even do that? Don't do that. Just accept it. Because I just found out my husband went to base camp to Everest base camp. And he said that in Tibet in some of these monks are trained in chopping up human bodies because they don't have any way to get rid of a corpse. So they chop them up and put them in the river for the river, the fish to feed. And that's why Tibetan monks who live in that area don't eat fish at all, because it's like eating your ancestors. So when I heard this, I was absolutely aghast and I went back and I started doing some reading to try and understand this whole context. But a couple of people that I told the story to, they were like, Oh my God, I can't think of it. Oh, shit. That is terrible. Like, why is it terrible? We, you living here in New Zealand or in India with lots of land and perfect temperate climate, you have so many options to do what you want to do with human remains, but they don't. And this is the best way in an environmentally sustainable way that they do it. So I think that judgmental reaction, I think if we can have some control over it it will help in getting our foot in the minds of people that we want to change.

Greg: 35:32

Fascinating. And there's so many of those types of examples that we hear about and we make judgments on, isn't there, whether it's treatment of women in the Middle East or our view of treatment of women in the Middle East to your type of example. There's a great example happening in the US now with a certain president and and some of the things that, that are coming out of there that are creating lots of controversy. And so that curiosity piece, I think is really fascinating. Yes, we're starting to see those sorts of conversations being had in the safety space. Absolutely. But I don't think it's enough, and it's the questions that you pose, tell us about the, the culture and how does that link to, how you present yourself and the clothing you wear and various other things. And I think sometimes I've had this conversation with with a couple of people from a Maori perspective, I think there's a there's a fear that if we ask those questions, we might get called out as a racist and but actually it's nothing to do with that, and people are happy to talk about their culture, so long as I guess the questions asked in an appropriate way and just, you've talked about so many things that I think will will be some great analysis, generational differences. I don't think there's generational differences, sorry, I don't think the generational differences are necessarily any different between Pākehā and Indian and American, the older generation are going to have a particular view and the younger generation are going to have that, that different view. The concept of time, and I've talked about this publicly in various forums, the word time is apparently the most popular noun in the English language. And so we're always late we're always going to be somewhere on time. The meeting starts at this time. It finishes at that. So I haven't got enough time, whereas many other cultures don't see that and the curiosity thing. It's just been it's been a fabulous discussion. The, is it do God

Hema: 37:36

do God? Yes, that day. You J. A. D. do God.

Greg: 37:42

Okay. Nice. I'll have to do some research on that and and and so if I can find my local sort of Indian neighbor, and if I went and asked them what that would mean, they might know what it is, depending on where they come from. Yeah,

Hema: 37:54

they come from, because again, because India is so vast, you will have a similar word for it in the southern parts of India and the eastern parts of India, but it's the number eight, wire ten, the mentality. That's what it is.

Greg: 38:07

Yeah, no, wonderful. Hey, Hema, it's been a great conversation. And I'm looking forward to going through and listening to this and and preparing it for release. Thanks so much for your time. Thank you. Been lovely to catch up again. And yeah, just appreciate appreciate the conversation.

Hema: 38:24

Thank you very much, Greg. Now I can tick off being a podcaster on my, from my list. All right. Thank you, Greg. Have a good one. See ya. You

Greg: 38:35

It's been an insightful conversation with Hema Puthran. We explored the deep connection between cultural intelligence, workplace safety, and the human side of leadership. My key takeaways from our conversation? Hema explored the intersectionality of CQ and safety by highlighting how adapting to different cultural contexts is crucial in a workplace safety setting. Understanding where people are coming from, both culturally. and professionally makes safety initiatives more effective and sustainable. Hema's background in social work has shaped her approach to health and safety. Just like in social work where practitioners must meet people where they are, safety professionals must also tailor their communications and strategies to resonate with workers lived experience. Through storytelling, Hema illustrated the importance of patience, perseverance, and trust in getting people to buy into safety messages. Rather than imposing rules, successful safety professionals engage in ongoing conversations and understand the why behind people's behaviors. Navigating cultural barriers in safety practice was an area for discussion, and there was an impactful case of a Sikh worker's decision to shave his beard for respiratory health. This decision, driven by open dialogue and personal reflection, underscores the need to balance cultural traditions with workplace safety requirements. We explored the generational and cultural divide in business safety practices, and Hema shared insights. into how health and safety are perceived differently by Indian employees versus Indian business owners in New Zealand. The difference in compliance between working for a company and running one is a fascinating cultural and behavioral study. So we've got some lessons for safety professionals in multicultural workplaces. First, approach those cultural conversations with curiosity, not judgment. Second, understand how power dynamics affect communication and change. Be patient. Change happens one conversation at a time. And recognize That emotional intelligence and cultural intelligence must work together to create lasting safety improvements. This discussion has been a powerful reminder that health and safety is about more than policies. It's about people. If you enjoyed this episode, Be sure to subscribe and follow the podcast for more thought provoking discussions. Let's keep the conversation going. Have you encountered cultural challenges in workplace safety? How did you manage them? How did you navigate them? Drop a comment in or send me a message. I'd love to hear your experiences. so we've come to the end of this episode, thanks so much for listening. I hope you found something valuable that you can take away that might enhance aspects of your own cultural intelligence. I'll add the transcript from the episode to the show notes. If you'd like to talk about cultural intelligence, get in touch with me via LinkedIn. I'm posting content regularly, so keep an eye on your feed and comment if you see something that resonates. If we aren't connected, send me an invite. If you want to hear more about CQ, you can follow and subscribe to this podcast, I would really appreciate it if you did that, and keep an eye out for the next episode. Ma te wa