CQSP S2E11 The cultural mosaic of Aotearoa with Dr Dannie

In this episode, I sat down with Dr. Danielle Henry, an organizational leader and cultural intelligence expert, to explore how leadership psychology and empathetic practices shape workplace culture. We talked about the mosaic of cultural backgrounds present in every organization, and the need to build systems that support, not just demand our best efforts. From her reflections on global project work to her bold take on the “dark side” of cultural intelligence, Dannie brought deep insight and a grounded honesty to the table. Whether you’re in the boardroom or out on site, this one’s packed with truths worth holding onto. 

Here are my 5 key takeaways

 CQ Goes Beyond Culture Days
Don’t let cultural awareness be a checkbox. Create real, immersive opportunities for people to engage with different worldviews, celebrating culture days is great, but go beyond that to help your workers truly understand the why behind their values and norms.

1. Wellbeing Requires Systems, Not Perks
   Massages and gym passes are nice, but what your people really need are integrated support systems: regular opportunities to give your brain a break, through mindfulness sessions or mental health breaks that aren’t guilt-ridden.
2. Middle Management is the Culture Bottleneck
   Senior leaders might “get it”, but culture lives and dies with middle managers. Train and empower them with CQ tools, not just policy handbooks.
3. Don’t Confuse Knowledge with Competency
   Knowing about a culture isn’t the same as leading effectively across difference. Competency means applying that knowledge with nuance, respect, and humility.
4. Burnout is a Leadership Issue, Not Just an HR One
   When your caregivers are exhausted, your system is failing. Make wellbeing for health and safety professionals a strategic priority, not just a wellness week initiative.

Transcript

Greg: 0:00

Hi, everyone welcome to another episode of the Culturally Intelligent Safety Professional, a podcast aimed at providing a platform where by safety professionals can develop a pathway to enhance their cultural intelligence capability which will help them function more effectively when working in a multicultural situation. I'm Greg Dearsly your host and I have a range of guests lined up to talk to this year. We have people with experiences across leadership psychology, health and safety, education and of course cultural intelligence. All of our guests come from a wide range of different backgrounds across the diversity spectrum, including from different organizational context. In this podcast you'll hear stories aimed at helping you the listener enhance your cultural intelligence. You'll gain an understanding of how you can create trust when working in diverse environments and quite frankly, that's all the time no matter how homogenous the place you work at might be, it's still full of diversity, people with different backgrounds, experiences and beliefs, all built on their figured world. So this episode we head to New York, that's right, the big Apple and chat with Dr. Danielle Antoinette Henry or Dannie to her friends. And I think I fit into that category and qualified

Dannie: 1:27

category. Yes, you do.

Greg: 1:29

Dannie is an accomplished management consultant and organizational leader, specializing in empathetic leadership, project management and cultural intelligence. She's the founder of and CEO of Great Dane 921 Consulting, where she advises organizations on building more compassionate, transparent workplace cultures. Her consulting expertise includes leading catalysts#biascorrect social media campaign for International Women's Day in 2022, which focused on redefining leadership through empathy. Dannie recently served as a director of project management at Tier One Solutions Group overseeing strategic marketing initiatives, organizational transformation, and cross-functional project delivery. She brings a unique blend of leadership, psychology, strategic planning, and cultural insight to every engagement. Dannie earned her doctorate in leadership psychology with a concentration in neuroscience of leadership from William James College. She holds a MPA in public and nonprofit management from NYU Wagner and a BA in American Politics from the NYU College of Arts and Science. Her credentials include, get this a certified Scrum master, a registered parliamentarian, a FINRA arbitrator, and a certificate in project leadership from Cornell University, a New Yorker at heart, and a certified Reiki practitioner who enjoys cultural outings and promoting holistic leadership practices. Dannie, welcome to the show, great to have you here,

Dannie: 3:08

Greg. Thanks for having me here, and I'm happy that we're able to get together.

Greg: 3:13

Absolutely. Absolutely. So we were together face to face in Thailand about three months ago. Was it three months ago? I believe

Dannie: 3:21

it. Two and a half months ago. Yeah, it's almost three months, but yeah.

Greg: 3:25

Yeah. As part of the CQ Fellows program. And I was just thinking with your. Your interest in cultural outings, that must have been just right up your alley, aside from the CQ Fellows thing.

Dannie: 3:38

I absolutely loved it. It was an immersive experience, which I am a fan of doing so we could have a better understanding of what makes us who we are, that secret sauce, if that makes any sense, Greg.

Greg: 3:56

Yeah, absolutely. And speaking of things, saucy, what? When we did the, when we did the, what was it? The amazing race thing. Yes. What was the food that your group chose or found? Can you remember?

Dannie: 4:12

Oh, it was like a chip. We had a bag of it, the different like chips. I can't remember what it was made of, but it was good. I liked it.

Greg: 4:21

And we had ice cream tea or tea ice cream, like soft serve ice cream with tea flavor and these little I don't know. Balls of flavorsome whatever.

Dannie: 4:32

We didn't have that. We had, we got the bags of chips that we actually bought to the rest of the group as you

Greg: 4:38

Oh, I remember them. Yes. Yes. Yeah. No, absolutely. Hey, I wanna ask you to walk down memory lane a little bit. And just talk about some of the defining moments that shaped your interest in org psych and also in cultural intelligence. How did that all happen?

Dannie: 4:58

It wasn't planned. That's number one. I think my work journey, which has been amassed of over 20 years work in the capacity as a project manager or working in client services or even just working in the tech and marketing industry, I had to work with different people, different teams that were not just within the United States, but global as well. Having that exposure really played its part in motivating me and trying to understand how we engage with each other because communication is so different from a cultural based on whatever your cultural background is. Another thing that played its part even further for me in looking at, in particular, cultural intelligence, not only in the workspace, but just in the, in our day-to-day, right? In our day-to-day interaction and function. I would have to say with what happened in 2020 with COVID-19 a pandemic in the United States, we had the crisis of the Black Lives Matter movement. And what had me thinking about stuff from a cultural and diversity perspective was seeing Greg, the different diversity statements that were coming out from companies all over the world. In stating, their diversity statement. And I read just about everyone that I came across and what had me thinking was. Does this organization really believe what they're saying here? And as such, do the people that work for them stand by this statement that's being given? And I had these thoughts and questions, Greg, even before I had started my doctoral program in the fall of that year. And what ended up happening for me is as I went along on my doctoral journey, I stumbled across cultural intelligence. There was a term, there was a term for what I was thinking about. I was, not just thinking about just diversity, equity, and inclusion, but going further into the weeds to get a better understanding as to how we get this existence of DEI.'Cause that's just my personal, thought and opinion on the matter that I feel that DEI is a kind of to me, a byproduct of cultural intelligence. People may disagree with me on it. But, this is my opinion of what I see. Of, of what it's a component of what cultural intelligence is. So that's how I got into it. I became so entrenched in it, and especially in studying organization and leadership, psychology, culture. It's it's right there. It plays its part. And I think Greg, you and I are on the same wavelength in what we are seeing on a global scale with our leaders. The infusion of culture. Greg is playing its role and its part right now. In how countries are functioning, not just organizations. Countries. Yeah, so here I am. Yeah. To be a voice, to be a part of that, that, that atmosphere.

Greg: 8:54

Yeah. Great. Yeah, absolutely. And we, I guess what's happening in the US with all the DEI stuff and it's not just a US issue. No, the same thing is happening here. Yeah. And so it's not just about organizations, it's about governments and it's about countries and and yeah, we're, we are seeing exactly the same thing yeah. Right here in little old New Zealand, thousands of miles away from where you are.

Dannie: 9:20

No I'm fully well aware of what's going on within New Zealand as of late, even with what transpired in November. It was November October with the Māori demographic. The politicians that represent that group. And now this whole edict coming down for three members of Parliament be suspended for doing a haka, so this is very interesting to me. It's,

Greg: 9:47

yeah. It's number one news item around here at the moment.

Dannie: 9:49

I believe it because I saw it. Yeah, last week. I think it's very ironic that you and I are having this conversation right now because I read that, I saw the video yeah. Of, of your fellow parliament member yeah. Issuing this whole edict about suspending these three members of Parliament and I looked at that and then I see what's going on here in the United States. And I was like, huh. This narrative is very transferrable and it's bit alarming, but at the same time, it's a good thing that it's happening for us to continue this aspect of learning from each other, be it. Be it gritty and very difficult right now. This needs to happen in a sense, for us to have a better understanding as to who we are as people.

Greg: 10:43

Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. And so let's just expand a little bit on your CQ journey. And you are delving into the dark side of CQ. Apparently, from what I understand, that's what you're doing.

Dannie: 10:59

You are spot on.

Greg: 11:02

And so what does that look like in the real world and are there really people or situations where CQ might actually be used to manipulate or mask people's intents?

Dannie: 11:19

Yes. And I know I'm very abrupt in my response in saying yes, but in just looking at what is transpiring here in the United States. Okay. Ironically enough, there was a news coverage about our current administration and how the current administration leaned into what was going on in the culture of the United States in order to win this most recent election. I found that statement to be very profound because it actually did it did align with my thinking of the whole aspect of a correlation and connection between cultural intelligence and dark leadership. My interest has further peaked with what is going on currently in my country as it pertains to the checks and balances of our branches of government. So people always think with cultural intelligence that it could, that it's only used for good. But as I've seen certain events that have been occurring here, I started to wonder, can you use cultural intelligence for not? And the answer is yes. It calls for appropriate manipulation, leaning in on certain demographic or demographic of individuals interests. Yeah. Overshadowing overall collective interest, right?'cause, we always talk about and cultural intelligence of being mindful of collectivism and individualism and having an overall awareness of that, right? And what has happened here, what I see starting to happen here is more of a, a disconnect of really looking at specific group's interests and not an overall interest of the whole. So I have started in essence, besides already doing some other research, as you are aware with cultural intelligence. But I've started to look at that more in regards to dark leadership. Dark leadership has actually been around for years. I as wrote briefly about it in a blog. This is for me, it's a brain dump in talking about the existence of dark leadership. That there are this notion of dark leaders in the corporate world. But there are also dark leadership in government. But. It was never properly identified as dark leadership. Now peppering in the influence of cultural intelligence, it has evolved into something more intricate, very sophisticated in nature, where you don't even notice that this is being done. You you probably have seen right that people are so entrenched in their thinking of certain political ideologies, they can't see other ideologies. Like just taking those things into consideration. It's absolutely fascinating and also a bit scary at the same time. And it also has me wondering,'cause here we go, as a social scientist or whatever, right? It has me thinking about like, how do we come back to center? Yeah. Is it possible? To come back to center.

Greg: 15:06

So just sticking to your blog, not that particular one, but I guess one of the reasons that made me think, I need to talk to Dannie, was the blog that you wrote a couple of months ago? And it was entitled, who Is The Therapist? For The Organizational Therapist? Yeah. And I guess it resonated when I think about my industry, which is health and safety professionals who are often described as the caregivers within organizations. And the discussion has been around forever, about who's looking after them. We are busy looking after everybody else. Yes. Who's looking after us. And what have you thought about, what have you read about, what have you written about in terms of how organizations can ensure that those supportive carer roles receive the care and support to sustain their own wellbeing rather than them spending all of their time? Not rather than, but as well as looking after everybody else in the business.

Dannie: 16:16

There, that is the burning question because you've probably seen in all of the things that we have read thus far currently, this fight for empathy, this fight for compassion, be it as a leader, as a worker, as a human being in general. It's not easy and there aren't, even though there have been certain vehicles in place to address it, what's happening, especially in the workspace as of late, is this push for obviously everybody to come back to the workspace. Full-time. Yep. No more remote. Yep. You know, there is heavy criticism about remote work, not pro, not properly producing. Okay. I have a 50 50 opinion on that. But there are also high demands in the workspace as well. And I don't see the appropriate ancillary resources that can be provided for, to employees, to leaders, to everybody in that space to, to properly function. The main goal has been about just producing and making a profit. And what's happening is organizations are forgetting the whole idea is that the whole idea that the person, there is a person, a human being, there's a humanistic element involved here. Greg, as in the health and safety and you know that, that world you all are burnt out.

Greg: 17:59

Yeah. Yeah. That's, that, that discussion is not a new one either. It's, it's been around for a little while

Dannie: 18:05

as well, but it's conversations in circles, but there's no like level of pro being proactive in like, how do we properly address this? Please note, having someone come in to give massages to your employees is not just a perk. It's actually a means of wealth, of self care and even, and wellness or doing a yoga session isn't a bad thing because it provides an outlet for mindfulness. Having moments to do mindfulness activities throughout the workday is not a bad thing. Or at least to do it once a week is not a bad thing because it provides the opportunity for the brain to regenerate itself. And to be able to develop new ideas to do work, and that is what people are forgetting.

Greg: 18:55

Yeah. I think you talked in that in that blog you used term compassion fatigue. And you've mentioned a couple of things there. Is there anything that organizations should be doing to try and address this compassion fatigue or the burnout for the carers in the organization. Is there any, anything specific?

Dannie: 19:16

What I mean by that is bringing in the appropriate practitioners that can see about mental health wellbeing. There is a stigma that is put on those seeking or providing aspects of mental health grief. What I mean by compassion fatigue is obviously you are giving your all as the therapist, as the health and wellbeing, practitioner, you're giving your all, you're giving, your all you're giving, your all, you're giving your all to the point. The cup is empty. Who is there to fill the cup for you because you're a human being as well. Yeah. So there needs to be this erasure of stigma, of thinking, to have a therapist on, call or on board specifically to see about not an HR person, I'm talking about specific professionals to do the appropriate therapeutic services for your employees is not a bad thing. And there are ways you could set that up. So you don't go against any regulations, security, confidential regulations for the employee, what have you, that can be done and not having this ancillary resource be one that's done for a certain amount of time. There has to be a way that you can be able to implement it on an ongoing recurring basis if needed. By that worker. Yeah.

Greg: 20:45

Yeah. And I think the whole wellbeing thing, in some ways it takes an organization to. Understand who its demographic is. Because as you say, if you, it's all very well to get a masseuse to come in and do that stuff, or in the past, certainly here, we've dished out corporate gym memberships. That's cool, but it's only gonna be used by the people that like going to the gym. Pretty much so you need to understand what presses the buttons of the people that work for you. Because if you just give them a corporate gym membership, half of them are still just gonna sit behind their desk all day eating chocolate and doing no exercise.

Dannie: 21:32

You got it. And this is where Greg organizations should really value the implementation of doing cultural intelligence assessments to really get an understanding of what really is their organization's culture. Because a lot of organizations don't do that they just, they have a mission, they got their values, they got their strategic goals for whatever time period. But when it comes down to revisiting what the overall organization's culture is, that's not happening. And that needs to happen more and more I feel on a frequent basis. Not once in a while when things are very fractured in your overall structure as an organization, right? Yeah. It doesn't take much to, at least for an organization to impose some type of time in the workday where people have to just shut down, go for a walk, walk away from your computer.

Greg: 22:42

We talk about it from a physical safety perspective, right? And yeah. And I remember years ago, I. When I first started out, we'd have all these people sitting behind computers doing work. I'm not talking about the, the real work, the digging the holes and the stuff that can really kill you, but physically, yeah. Yeah. The computer based work. And there used to be a program, and I think it's still available on Microsoft, where a little paperclip would come up on your screen and say, time for a break. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that really happens anymore for those people. No, it doesn't. Data entry a hundred percent of the time. Yeah, they probably get a morning tea and a lunch and whatever. But in between times they, they're going hard out for a couple of hours. Without that break.

Dannie: 23:28

And I'm even calling for like even a break for those that have physicality, a lot of high physicality in their work as well. It, it's needed across the board, but whether you sit behind a desk or whether you're moving and grooving, for those eight hours, you need a moment to pause. And again, that element of mindfulness really helps in helping brain functionality.

Greg: 23:55

Let's let's divert back to cultural intelligence a little bit. Absolutely. Let's go and explore organizations in your experience that are having a crack at doing some stuff around diversity or cross-cultural competency or whatever term we want to give it when you see them getting it wrong in terms of, burnout for people that are maybe culturally fluent or culturally intelligent where are organizations getting it wrong in terms of their care of those sorts of people?

Dannie: 24:34

Where they're getting it wrong is what I called out from previously in regards to a lack of doing an appropriate CQ assessment. A lack of doing an appropriate CQ assessment of even of their leaders, their senior leadership overall, those that are in executive positions, to really understand their leadership style and pattern and how that phase out to those that they are managing. So if I don't have an idea of your level of high CQ competency, you may have low CQ competency, you may have low CQ drive, you may have low CQ strategy, some of those four capabilities that we talk about, Greg. Or for the four square, model. Of, of cultural intelligence. If I don't have an understanding of what you bring to the table as a leader, there is the high likelihood of my organization not being fully successful.

Greg: 25:33

I see. And I had an an experience last year, I think it was with an organization who were actively recruiting migrant workers. And the leadership would go to the country where the migrants were based and they'd put them through interviews and really try and educate them about New Zealand culture and do all of that sort of stuff. So it seemed like they wanted to do the right thing and the and these migrant workers came over. And where it all fell down was that, albeit that the organization might have a high cultural intelligence culture. The middle management who were responsible for leading those people and managing those people and being responsible for them, didn't have that same culture.'Cause there was a lot of bullying going on because of they couldn't understand their language or the migrant wasn't very good at English. They had a different risk appetite, a different work ethic and so there was aggression, not violence, but aggression, bullying, harassment that was going on at middle management level. Is that, do you think that's something that's maybe normal in most organizations?

Dannie: 26:48

Unfortunately, it is because a lot of the resources and information and education, usually majority of the time, Greg stops at senior leadership, there is initially a promise from senior leadership that, that they will disseminate what they've learned to middle management. But that a good high amount of majority of the time, that doesn't happen. Yeah. So what ends up happening is the senior leader can have all of the appropriate tools that need to be utilized and it's not being properly trained to middle managers. So that's why like even when I've gone in to do trainings I not only do trainings with senior leadership, but I literally will push for also doing trainings for middle managers as well. So the message is clear, and middle managers also see that senior leadership is truly invested in ensuring that an aspect of cultural awareness and cultural intelligence is in place for their organization. So it's not just stopping at senior leadership. Greg, you've probably experienced, you were probably, you probably called in to do a training and you're probably doing the training more so with senior leadership. And they'll immediately say, oh, we're gonna, we're getting these tools, this is great. And then we're gonna share it with our middle managers manager. I think we as even consultants or, development professionals, what we could do, which is an extra mile in essence, is to follow up and do some form of inquiry with that former client as to where they are right now. And was that information shared with your middle managers? This is a common problem that ends up happening all the time.

Greg: 28:52

So putting your psychologist hat on. And a little bit of your c, a little bit of your CQ hat on as well. Absolutely. What would you say the most overlooked critical capability for leaders working across cultures is in your experience?

Dannie: 29:11

Oh man. I think it's actually not, not fully leaning in on the CQ knowledge the cognitive stuff. Why I say CQ knowledge is because, it's a cognitive aspect. It all works with here your head. And you can do some work in regards to like within CQ strategy, Greg, within CQ action. Of, carrying forward certain things. But that doesn't mean that you can believe it. If you get what I'm saying. Because this is where you can foray into what. What we re what we just talked about, which is an, that can play an element into dark leadership. You you manipulate. Okay. So with me calling out to the cognitive side is really having a full skill awareness of the cultural differences of really having an understanding and an appreciation and thinking about the overall like norms and values of other people. Not just yourself. And that I feel cq knowledge is difficult.

Greg: 30:29

The reason I said that it was interesting is I don't necessarily disagree with you, my experience has been though, when I use the words cultural intelligence leaders typically go yeah. I know what that is. And, but what they think they know it is. Is that cultural knowledge piece, right? I know some stuff about Māori culture, therefore I must be culturally intelligent. And so yeah, to a couple of different, to a couple of different, approaches to it. And that

Dannie: 31:00

there are and I'm calling out to that other side of it where you may know about Māori culture. You don't fully know, you have an awareness of it, but I'm taking it from a slant of really immersing yourself in the overall knowledge of it. Having your brain really be fired up to have a full scale understanding of the values and norms of the Māori people.

Greg: 31:24

Yeah. So taking it one step further then. And so I'm a health and safety professional. There's however many of us in New Zealand, few thousand. What do you think we can do to meaningfully enhance our cultural intelligence as safety people working in diverse organizations, which is a fact that there's no getting out of it. Every organization in New Zealand is diverse, whether it's ethnicity or any other aspect of diversity. That's what we look like in New Zealand and most other places in the world, I suspect.

Dannie: 32:05

Yeah I, New Zealand is a country I, so I so want to visit someday because I do love the overall, mosaic of the country. Okay. There's so much to learn and acquire immersive, like I said, knowledge from a health and safety perspective as to what can be focused on and what can be done to become more culturally aware is for organizations to have the appropriate space and opportunity to expose their staff to the different cultures, not just saying have one like culture day no, no, I'm talking about from time to time immersing yourself in respective cultures from a health and safety perspective, because the way how individuals receive care from health professionals is very different based on on their perception of what a healthcare professional stands in their order of priority and status. Okay. So really taking the time to do those type of like immersive trips and trainings in what you can encounter when working with a patient. Or a client or, whatever have you, on a, in a site or in the space in how you will be received as a health and safety professional. It's very different, depending, some people may be afraid of working with you. Some people may be, receptive, and welcome, and some people may feel like you are the sali of the of of knowledge and take everything that you say as golden, right? So there are different variables and what it calls for is providing the opportunity for health and safety professionals to have a better understanding of that. And that only that calls for not only just reading books, Greg, you gotta get into the space. And that is something that not only for what you've probably encountered, in your workspace in New Zealand, but I can even say even here in the United States, it's something that is deficient and is lacking. We don't take the time.

Greg: 34:38

Yeah and I guess it's all about all of those cultural value profiles that we talk about in the CQ space. Yes. Understanding what collectivism and individualism looks like through a, safety lens or power distance or uncertainty avoidance. All of those, yeah. Words that we know all

Dannie: 34:54

the key words. But it calls for us now to take it another level and not feel handicapped because of a company budget. You understand what I'm saying? Like you gotta be able to put some parameters, vehicles, tools in place that gives your employee the opportunity to really be immersed in, in the space. The funny thing about work, workplace. Work is the only place where you will go where you'll be around different people. I don't think people really think about it that way. A lot of people just think of it as I'm just gonna work. I'm getting my paycheck, and that's it. But in all honesty, Greg, you can determine what space you are gonna be in when you leave the workspace with your family outside of the workspace. With you. You are with your own set of friends that are more than likely culturally aligned in your perspective on things. But it's, when you go to work is where you see a different plethora of people,

Greg: 36:08

which is really interesting from a New Zealand perspective and again, probably not too dissimilar from other parts of the world. But I was at an event a couple of nights ago and it was a presentation on the value of ethnic diversity in governance with a particular lens on Pacifica, so people from the Pacific Islands and right there was a chap there who's a distinguished emeritas professor who's written 30 books on diversity in New Zealand. And one of the things that he pulled out was I guess a graph showing the demographics of New Zealand workplaces now and in the future, and so we've got an aging white European population. Who typically are in leadership roles, governance roles. Who typically are male. And so they're on the sort of the retirement Yes. Sort of verge of retirement. And then at the bottom of the curve, you've got all of these younger Pacific Islanders, Māori, and Asian workers who are going to future of leadership in New Zealand. And CQ is where it's at like now and into the future because yeah, we are gonna have to learn to get along and understand and all of that stuff with a bunch of people who maybe we don't have that cultural understanding, that cultural competence, that cultural exactly of what makes them tick, how they make decisions, why they make decisions, all of those sorts of things.

Dannie: 37:44

And keep in mind with what you just said, you have older, predominantly white males retiring out who have been in leadership roles. We don't know whether or not they were a dark leader, okay. Of being able to transfer their thoughts on their own unconscious biases in the workspace, right? And they're leading individuals that do not look like them. So what's ending up, what's happening here is you have these individuals retiring out and you have the up and comers who are multicultural in nature and folks aren't prepared for that. They haven't been, given the opportunity to cultivate this level of differences and diversity that's burgeoning, that's on the horizon. So we are at, in essence, in my personal opinion, at a serious impasse. It's an, it's a very exciting time, to me it's exciting to some folks of these all get out, but to me this is an exciting time. Exciting time, and it's about how do you navigate in it? Are you all for it or are you not all for it?

Greg: 39:11

Yeah, we could probably go on forever.

Dannie: 39:16

We sure can. This is awesome. Love this. It's it's I think nearing midnight where you are.

Greg: 39:23

Yeah. The sun's still shining here, so I know. We should stick a pin in it there and say. Absolute pleasure to have you on, I know we've only been connected for a very short amount of time. I think we with that experience in Thailand we've connected on this topic and along with the other dozen or so people that were there with us. Yeah. And look forward to doing it again later in the year in the big ole USA,

Dannie: 39:50

I am excited i'm so excited to see everyone. I'm excited to see you again, Greg, in person. I think this has been a great opportunity in come bringing together, individuals who are really committed and passionate about spreading the message, about the importance of acknowledging and being comfortable with each other's differences. It's okay.

Greg: 40:18

Yeah. Great way to end it. Thanks so much for your time. Absolutely. And we, if we don't see each other online'cause we're on different sides of the the cohort, we'll see you in November. Yes. November. Awesome. Thanks Dannie.

Dannie: 40:37

You are welcome.

Greg: 40:42

It was great to catch up with Dannie and get immersed in her wisdom. We talked about the mosaic of cultural backgrounds present in every organization, and the need to build systems that support, not just demand our best efforts. From her reflections on global project work to her bold take on the dark side of cultural intelligence, Dannie brought deep insight and grounded honesty to the table. Whether you're in the boardroom or out on site, this one's packed with truths worth holding onto, here are my five key takeaways. CQ goes Beyond culture days. Don't let cultural awareness be a checkbox. Create real immersive opportunities for people to engage with different worldviews. Celebrating culture days is great, but go beyond that to help your workers truly understand the why behind different cultural values and norms. Wellbeing requires systems not perks. Massages and gym passes are nice, but what your people really need are integrated support systems, regular opportunities to give your brain a break through mindfulness sessions or mental health breaks that aren't guilt ridden. A third takeaway middle management is a cultural bottleneck. Senior leaders might get it, but culture lives and dies with middle managers. Train and empower them with CQ tools, not just policy handbooks. My fourth takeaway, don't confuse knowledge with competency. Knowing about a culture isn't the same as leading effectively across difference, competency means applying that knowledge with nuance, respect, and humility. And finally, burnout is a leadership issue, not just an HR one. When your caregivers or your health and safety professionals are exhausted, your system is failing. Make wellbeing for health and safety professionals a strategic priority, not just a wellness week initiative. So we've come to the end of this episode, thanks so much for listening. I hope you found something valuable that you can take away that might enhance aspects of your own cultural intelligence. I'll add the transcript from the episode to the show notes. If you'd like to talk about cultural intelligence, get in touch with me via LinkedIn. I'm posting content regularly, so keep an eye on your feed and comment if you see something that resonates. If we aren't connected, send me an invite. If you want to hear more about CQ, you can follow and subscribe to this podcast, I would really appreciate it if you did that, and keep an eye out for the next episode. Ma te wa..